ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[Helen]

Any chloride helps PFS written in the first post. Since chloride is what Gaba works thru there is no chloride depletion in PFS, no blood shows low chloride. Chloride is just used to do the feed back on GABA

 

[Admiral]

Any alternatives though? Betaine HCL, even one pill a day somehow makes me feel worse and gives me insomnia.

 

[barbaar]

@gbolduev @mattyb what about drinking water with "light salt" (69% KCl, 30% NaCl, rest KI) and taking magnesium tablets? Or is the potassium iodide in it bad because it will slow thyroid?

 

[mattyb]

Any chloride helps PFS written in the first post. Since chloride is what Gaba works thru there is no chloride depletion in PFS, no blood shows low chloride. Chloride is just used to do the feed back on GABA

If it's alkalosis with volume expansion as you say, then there would be chloride depletion because urinary chloride excretion would be super high. Serum could stay normalized at the expense of pulling Cl- from intracellular compartment. You would especially expect this if alkalosis is in maintenance, since total loss of H+ would significantly decrease charge, and in order for cells to maintain charge they would have to exclude anions like Cl-. Cl- would get pulled into serum where when ECF is expanded.

 

[brix]

I'm determined to get my hair panels done. But the more research I do, the more likely it seems I have a histidine issue going on (low).

To sum it up the best I can, from 2004-2006 I was traveling for work and putting in ridiculous hours - running on energy drinks and coffee. I developed a bad oral infection near my wisdom tooth, I had +100 degree temps, my whole body ached, you get the picture. I tried to work through it and next thing you know I had to check myself into a hospital. I was never the same after that and developed all kinds of strange non-localized symptoms - enough to make me scared. To this day the carryovers are hair loss, sinus issues, poor digestion, cold hands/feet, no/low libido (crash after orgasms), puffy face, poor sleep, shallow breathing, and anxiety/tension. Keep in mind I also once had a 6 month bout of mono back in college and I'm embarrassed to say this, but excessive masturbation was in issue when I was really depressed in my teens/20s's.

I saw a ton of GP's over the years, but none of them seemed to be listening to me. I started reviewing blood serum panels to dig up what I think they may have been missing. Keep in mind they all never consistently tested the same things.

- Diagnosed Gilbert's Syndrome (elevated bilirubin)
- Elevated Folate (on one panel)
- CO2 is always at the very top end of the range
- Calcium is always at the very top end of the range
- Sodium is always at the top end of the range
- TSH is always between 2-3
- T3 is elevated
- High LDL
- Elevated Cortisol
- Testosterone bottom of the range, DHT bottom of range, estrogen bottom of range
- Antiphospholipid Synrdome antibodies and a recommendation for MTHFR tests were insisted by a nurse practitioner

I'm fairly sure I'm overmethylating - especially after I once tried out a regimen to increase my dopamine thinking it would help with my hair loss. I became a very angry/agitated person. My liver is congested, which leads to copper toxicity. Copper toxicity inhibits histidine, reduces zinc, lowers stomach acid and causes sinus issues. I'm not a medical professional and I could be wrong, but I dunno I feel like I'm close and appreciate the wealth of information being shared.

I have the same results on my blood tests. Not sure about dht and e.

 

[mattyb]

It is not like betaine hcl aimed at making more stomach acid? (they say it is buffered with potassium phosphate.)

Dietary supplement. Used to help maintain proper pH levels. Supports the bodily mechanisms involved in the retention of nitrogen and the regulation of creatinine, blood urea nitrogen, and uric acid.

Nice comments....
- They provide a method for choosing the dose based on how the product smells to the user and that method works great. We have a relative with metabolic alkalosis that is benefiting from using this.

- Out of nowhere I contracted a bronchial problem and was at my wits end to get some relief. I was searching on line for expectorants and out popped ammonium chloride. My granddad gave this to me many years ago and I had forgotten about it. I ordered this and it worked for me.

It's similar to HCl, just has slightly different effects on intracellular bicarb concentration because of the ammonia component.

 

[Helen]

@mattyb

PPSD and PFS people have different types of alkalosis . Look thru the tests, some have volume depletion where they need sodium chloride and potassium chloride. Some have high cortisol, with potassium depletion. chloride is lost yes, but it is not limiting factor. Need to use dexamethasone for a fix .

I agree ammonia chloride can and is used . Since it lowers sodium.

 

[BeLikeWater]

Why you claim this?.. explaine it better please.

People with pfs has any constipation or fever.. or very little.

One night without sleep or low hours of sleep have put me in normal state I think it was for incresing dopamine.... but it decreases inmune system activity. Complete recoceries of mental and sexual faculties.

Things that decrease inmune system created complete reversal during the taking like hidrocortisone...


During the seems I was cured sexual and brain and my old focused self, seems my body couldnt handle the pressure for a lot of time or the stress of so much activity. Normally my libido was increasing until I found a boiling point that I get some gayness and then crash..

 

[BeLikeWater]

Cortisol come from the sympathetic activity. Arousal is sympathetic.
The immune system can work only in parasympathetic state. Lowering it, means having more sympathetic.

But ejaculation and pleasure is of para-sympathetic activity, so you need a good balance if you want to function properly. In PFS and PAS, this is what does not work properly, causing the hormonal and endocrine balance rupture. It is the nervous system that provokes the release of hormones. So it all depends on the resilience of your nervous system and its capacity to handle the ups and downs of the 2 branches of the nervous system.

But then there are 2 cases of para-sympathetic activity, one is alternatign with the sympathetic activity (= when one goes up the other goes down like a see-saw), whereas in the other case they work together, the parasympathetic is blocking or freeezing the sympathetic activity. The result seems the same but is not. I think auto-immune is the second case, or maybe a yo-yo, a big roller coaster, a sensitive spring jumping around...

Definetly should follow this ideas...

 

[Helen]

@mattyb

My blood tests (PSSD) this is the case with PSSD. as an example

this is why I wrote to them to use electrolytes, for volume expansion ace with potassium and magnesium chlorides, possible dexamethasone could add ammonia chloride.



for contraction sodium potassium chlorides.

If we dont keep cortisol down. none of this works anyway.

 

[mattyb]

@mattyb

PPSD and PFS people have different types of alkalosis . Look thru the tests, some have volume depletion where they need sodium chloride and potassium chloride. Some have high cortisol, with potassium depletion. chloride is lost yes, but it is not limiting factor. Need to use dexamethasone for a fix .

I agree ammonia chloride can and is used . Since it lowers sodium.

Oh yeah, like I said when I made the post, I'm not saying this will fix anyone permanently or anything at all, nor am I saying that this is for everyone. This is purely a rehydration strategy people can try out until they find something that does work permanently, just to abate some of the more severe symptoms like muscle weakness and brain fog in the interim. The rehydration strategy can help with both volume contraction and expansion, but it will only fully correct the former, not the latter. In expansion it will at least prevent things from getting worse, and maybe give some extra benefit.

 

[BeLikeWater]

Definetly should follow this ideas...

Actually Im thibking that my body cannot habdle so much sympathetic activity for long time

 

[Helen]

Oh yeah, like I said when I made the post, I'm not saying this will fix anyone permanently or anything at all, nor am I saying that this is for everyone. This is purely a rehydration strategy people can try out until they find something that does work permanently, just to abate some of the more severe symptoms like muscle weakness and brain fog in the interim. The rehydration strategy can help with both volume contraction and expansion, but it will only fully correct the former, not the latter. In expansion it will at least prevent things from getting worse, and maybe give some extra benefit.

What do you think if we used this with ACE or with Dexa for volume expansion.

I think dexamethasone should work for PFS with potassium repletion. You see in PFS body does not start up NADPH since it cant , progesterone is kept high to retain potassium , but it cant since cortisol is high. So if we dump cortisol, this will retain potassium and will allow NADPH to work again?

 

[mattyb]

@mattyb

My blood tests (PSSD) this is the case with PSSD. as an example

this is why I wrote to them to use electrolytes, for volume expansion ace with potassium and magnesium chlorides, possible dexamethasone could add ammonia chloride.



for contraction sodium potassium chlorides.

If we dont keep cortisol down. none of this works anyway.

Yeah, this is literally out of the textbooks on how to correct volume expansion. 1-2 doses of Ace with chloride electrolytes (K/Mg/Na).

Has anyone here tried the alternative strategies like lysine HCl (only) + electrolytes? I know people have taken lysine, but they've mixed it with other AAs and supps that could have screwed with it.

 

[brix]

@gbolduev my blood test showed high calcium and low potassium, high albumin and a/g ratio. Does this show fast oxidation? I haven’t had hair tests.

 

[Helen]

Yeah, this is literally out of the textbooks on how to correct volume expansion. 1-2 doses of Ace with chloride electrolytes (K/Mg/Na).

Has anyone here tried the alternative strategies like lysine HCl (only) + electrolytes? I know people have taken lysine, but they've mixed it with other AAs and supps that could have screwed with it.

Tubzy tried that russian study , remember with lysine arginine histidine HCLs with potassium/ but he only did it for one day ))

 

[mattyb]

What do you think if we used this with ACE or with Dexa for volume expansion.

For anyone with high aldo, ace + lytes should work for them, I wouldn't see why not. I don't know about dexa, maybe.

The other option for people without access to those meds would be oral lysine HCl + lytes.

One thing that sucks with people with volume expansion and normal serum chloride is that they probably need HCl infusion, because I don't think oral will work. And they need the chloride to correct the hypokalemia. If ECF chloride is at normal levels, the small intestine probably won't pull in dietary Cl- since it runs on passive diffusion and requires an electrochemical gradient.

So we need to find out a way to get chloride into the body in this situation, since no one here has access to IVs. Ace would accomplish this. Oral lysine might work too.

 

[Shadow]

@mattyb you are talking about lysine or Lysine clonixinate?

 

[mattyb]

Tubzy tried that russian study , remember with lysine arginine histidine HCLs with potassium/ but he only did it for one day ))

We need someone who is still really suffering from brain fog and muscle weakness to try out just the lysine HCl + NH4Cl/HCl + KCl then follow it with MgCl and small amounts of NaCl. I think someone like that would be the best candidate to see if it works because you would see a pretty quick turn-around in those symptoms. If that person had aldo tested and it came back high it would be even better.

 

[barbaar]

Man I really want to try ace now. I have it on hand but still haven't been able to get any blood tests done. Would getting bloods done first give you guys valuable information? Otherwise I think I'm just going to try it.