Traditional Chinese Medicine Herbs often mimic estrogen

[Noodle]

TCM hairloss herbs like He Shou Wu, Ginseng ,Gotu Kola,Schizandra and some others are sometimes Estrogen mimics.

As in Gbolds explenation Estrogen and DHT is the "culprit".

Chinese people often do have less hair loss or in even older ages.
Do they have less DHT, is it because of soy / phytestrogens? Do estrogen mimics lower Estrogen somehow? Or even more manganese bc of rice ?

Or how would you explain that Herbs for Hair loss are estrogenic?
Would love to hear [mention]gbolduev[/mention] opinion.

 

[Helen]

estrogenic stuff like resveratrol, phytoestrogens. they lower your copper. So this lowers your base estrogen level.


You can read about it. arotamatase is copper dependant . Resveratrol is estrogen, it chelates copper

 

[Noodle]

So would that be helping additional to zinc+manganese?

And is it safe to use "long term" (more than 1 month) ? Or are there even other dangers from that?

Btw phytoestrogens are even in Caffeine, apples, carrots and beer (but I guess you guys know that)

 

[Helen]

So would that be helping additional to zinc+manganese?

And is it safe to use "long term" (more than 1 month) ? Or are there even other dangers from that?

zinc and manganese chelate copper also

Read this
http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1999/articles/1999-v14n01-p028.shtml

 

[Noodle]

interesting, I hope I got that right.

Its therefore better to start with manganese first until manganese levels rose and then include zinc.
Because Zinc can lower manganese even more.
Not sure If for hair loss reasons high/ normal levels are important or the manganese itself.

 

[freeflow]

I just wrote in a topic but gonna mention again,
Schizandra gives me back my emotions somewhat and it's from its estrogenic properties. Pretty awesome!
And the day after i use schizandra and i take tribulus the tribulus works and gave me some personality, hard muscles and some libido!!!

 

[TubZy]

I just wrote in a topic but gonna mention again,
Schizandra gives me back my emotions somewhat and it's from its estrogenic properties. Pretty awesome!
And the day after i use schizandra and i take tribulus the tribulus works and gave me some personality, hard muscles and some libido!!!

Yeah, it makes sense more and more with [mention]gbolduev[/mention] 's thinking now. Schisandra upregulates the ER, which would help activate DHT and make it sensitive again.

I wonder if any of those herbs have anti prog properties?

 

[TubZy]

Rhodiola also binds to the ER

 

[Goose12]

One herb that I have found that can lower progesterone is bulbine natalensis, but it is dose dependent. A study on rats showed that at certain doses it can raise progesterone up to 70 percent but at that dose it also increased testosterone up to 346 percent. At a higher dose it actually decreased progesterone by 41 percent and there was a non statistical decline in testosterone.

First hand accounts that I could find on forums from people who actually tried it showed if you are already healthy it did little to nothing but people on pct reported good effects. I have been a little scared to try it because it has been shown to be slightly liver and kidney toxic in rat studies, and it can decrease estrogen, which I am learning might be a bad thing. I tried it once, 5 days ago, three pills every 8 hours and had great results. It might be a coincidence but I had a slight labido increase, more ejaculate, and I have been feeling good ever since.

I am curious if anyone else has experience with bulbine natalensis? I might cycle it once a week if ella or Ru doesn't work. I have ordered both.
https://examine.com/supplements/bulbine-natalensis/

 

[TubZy]

One herb that I have found that can lower progesterone is bulbine natalensis, but it is dose dependent. A study on rats showed that at certain doses it can raise progesterone up to 70 percent but at that dose it also increased testosterone up to 346 percent. At a higher dose it actually decreased progesterone by 41 percent and there was a non statistical decline in testosterone.

First hand accounts that I could find on forums from people who actually tried it showed if you are already healthy it did little to nothing but people on pct reported good effects. I have been a little scared to try it because it has been shown to be slightly liver and kidney toxic in rat studies, and it can decrease estrogen, which I am learning might be a bad thing. I tried it once, 5 days ago, three pills every 8 hours and had great results. It might be a coincidence but I had a slight labido increase, more ejaculate, and I have been feeling good ever since.

I am curious if anyone else has experience with bulbine natalensis? I might cycle it once a week if ella or Ru doesn't work. I have ordered both.
https://examine.com/supplements/bulbine-natalensis/

I'll have to check it out further, but that is very interesting. The concept is similar to RU/Ella by lowering/blocking prog, T rises via 3b HSD. Seems like bulbine lowers prog but increases T possibly through 3b HSD. Did you find out how many mg's?

 

[Goose12]

In rats at 25mg/kg progesterone increased by 31%,at 50mg/kg + 70%, and at 100mg/kg progesterone decreased by 70%.
Estrogen decreased to around 70% at all doses
Testosterone increased up to 346% at 50mg/kg and remained the same at 100mg/kg
It had no effect on prolactin and what I thought was interesting was that it had no effect on the hormones of female rats.

The recommended dose for a person is 550mg at 150 lbs, 730mg at 200lbs, and 900mgs at 250 lbs. From my research SNS bulbine natalensis is supposed to be the best.

 

[jacknap]

I just wrote in a topic but gonna mention again,
Schizandra gives me back my emotions somewhat and it's from its estrogenic properties. Pretty awesome!
And the day after i use schizandra and i take tribulus the tribulus works and gave me some personality, hard muscles and some libido!!!

Yeah, it makes sense more and more with @gbolduev 's thinking now. Schisandra upregulates the ER, which would help activate DHT and make it sensitive again.

I wonder if any of those herbs have anti prog properties?

interesting. yesterday was my schizandra day on cdnuts protocol. had a girl come over and something happened that hasn't happened since I crashed. I wanted to jerk off to porn after fucking her and having a great orgasm. (after she left of course lol)