Methylation / Methylation-protocols benefits / mistakes ?

[HerrFisch]

Does anyone on here have any experiences with Methylation-protocols so far?

Came across some over the last few years, but didnt really know what to think of those.
Always seemed like they archive things and feel better, but on the other side, they do really high dose and its like they never are "cured". Or cant stop doing high dose. (Assumptions, dont know for sure!)
I think most of them especially on phoenixrising are CFS / ME. And I think most of them got their gene mutations tested.

e.g. : Phoenixrising Fredd-protocol

They often use up to ~15mg methylb12 and ~5mg methylfolate.
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+ Its suggested to use Potassium with it
+ other supplements like selenium, chromium,

- They dont think of it lowering Histidine -> lack of aminoacids & stomach acid
- Not suggested to supplement magnesium / Magnesium loss with methylation?



What do you think they do right or wrong? And as asked above, do you have experience with it?

 

[HerrFisch]

Nobody tried any b12 etc ?

 

[Orion]

Nobody tried any b12 etc ?

I am using small amounts of methyl folate and methyl B12, and other Bs, I am attempting high dose B1, so see if it can clear accutane bile/cholestasis symptoms.

 

[HerrFisch]

Ok I answer my own question,

I guess methylation is a tool, just like pretty much all other supplements. And you can use it in the right and wrong situations.

 

[Orion]

Ok I answer my own question,

I guess methylation is a tool, just like pretty much all other supplements. And you can use it in the right and wrong situations.

I read somewhere today, that you can test methylation with SAM-e. You take it before bed, if you fall asleep fast and good = methylation normalish.

Crappy sleep and insomnia = methylation blocked or maybe over methylating.

 

[tanedout]

I tried following some of the protocols detailed here;

Active B12 therapy and methylation FAQ

Definitely got benefits in terms of mental clarity, and generally felt pretty good on it, but I think this eventually tanked my potassium (in fairness it says to include 400mg daily and I just took 99mg of potassium citrate which was useless)

I also found Adenosyl B12 gives me fatigue - like chronic fatigue. Have to constantly take naps, arms and legs feel like lead, but goes within a day or two of stopping. I also find methylfolate gives me chest pain. Tried various brands, but same issue.

I still take active B12 though, and sometimes mutli-B vit. Active B12, active b-complex and actyle l-fumarate consistently gives a good boost in mental clarity.

 

[Shadow]

I found this protocol white searching for whole body skin numbness, that guy Freddd said he had this symptom, and if I read right he recovered with this protocol.

In the same forum, a guy posted about this same symptom, he took SSRI(Lexapro) and after a year off he tried supplementing SAM-e and his body went numb too.

This guy Freddd told to the guy that it could be something called Methyl Trap, anyone knows WTF is this and how SSRIs and SAM-e can lead to this kind of symptoms.

@Helen do you know what this "methyl trap" is?

 

[Orion]

still take active B12 though

Curious what dosage and are you using daily?

 

[HerrFisch]

This guy Freddd told to the guy that it could be something called Methyl Trap, anyone knows WTF is this and how SSRIs and SAM-e can lead to this kind of symptoms.

I think its if you take too much of synthetic folic acid and you are not able to make methylfolate out of it. Then you are stuck with not-active b12 as well. And no methylation. And the more synthetic you use, the less the enzyme works, so you get more and more methylation block.
But I guess its either low metabolism, and or low histidine, and maybe genetic changes leading to little enzyme activation.
But I dont think (know if) SAMe will lead to Methyltrap.

 

[mattyb]

When I got gallbladder issues from a low fat diet (or in the past, PPI use) methylation was a key factor for sure. I took an active b complex with methylfolate and methyl b12. I did that on top of lots of other stuff though. But restoring methylation is necessary for anyone with slow metabolism.

If the methylation protocol is working, you should notice a craving for meat to start. The demand for methionine will be huge.

 

[tanedout]

Curious what dosage and are you using daily?

Just take about 500mg of methylB12 (jarrow brand - 1/2 a 1000mg sublingual tablet)

 

[Orion]

I took an active b complex with methylfolate and methyl b12.

So you think that slow oxidizers might benefit or kickstart methylation with actives first(for a short time) to load up?

 

[mattyb]

So you think that slow oxidizers might benefit or kickstart methylation with actives first(for a short time) to load up?

I don't even think actives are necessary for most people. Maybe if you have a known MTHFR mutation. Otherwise probably not necessary. If you do take actives, it should only be taken at the beginning though - should come off of them as soon as possible.

 

[mattyb]

So you think that slow oxidizers might benefit or kickstart methylation with actives first(for a short time) to load up?

Also another thing worth mentioning - I don't think you are actually a slow oxidizer.

 

[Helen]

I don't even think actives are necessary for most people. Maybe if you have a known MTHFR mutation. Otherwise probably not necessary. If you do take actives, it should only be taken at the beginning though - should come off of them as soon as possible.

I doubt methylation people look at it correctly. I think it is just since NADPH is lacking. MTHFR does not work, also folic into tetrafolate does not work. And MOREVER they are going backwards.

By giving methylfolate, some people are losing their gums , since there is no mutation really . There is lack of NADPH. And without NADHP you cant keep going further into thyroid, or l dopa , all those enzymes produce superoxide. and H2O2. This is why people taking methylfolate have all these inflammations and they call it detox)).

There isnt supposed to be a methylfolate without NADPH. Bypassing it. Creates oxidative stress. Freddd encountered it by almost losing all his teeth))

SO I think methylation enzymes just go backwards, basically MTHF goes backwards, DHFR goes backwards. This is all to produce NADPH

This is why they says that methylfolate recycles bh4, or folate recycles bh4. Since tetrafolate or methylfolate going backwards will produce NADPH. Then this NADPH will recycle glutathione which will recycle vitamin C which will recycle bh4.

And actually if you take folic acid, that will stop backward movement of Dhfr and people feel bad.

Lack of NADPH is what causes hairloss and methyl block.

vitamin C and NADPH is what turns cholesterol into bile acids. So this is the same. Most things really are about keeping vitamin C in active form along with vitamin E.

aging is the same. hairloss is the same. Vitamin C is what activates vasopressin. SO without active recycled C , you are screwed. since you will be dehydrated.

NO active C , no vasopressin, no active C - no bh4. You are offically dehydrated and eNOS making superoxide, Double whammy , how can hair survive this.

Basically a pool of free NADPH is what allows the body to run faster . LIttle pool of NADPH< boom slow down and sit. By passing it with thyroids, methylfolates, etc is weird if you ask me. May be that is why RIck Van K, died a couple of years ago. Who was into this methylation thing. Suddenly just died. I guess from a heart attack. And we know that heart wont handle oxidative stress. if you lose your gums like that. You can really lose heart tissue the same way.

SO we need to be careful about all this active stuff. IMO

 

[Helen]

Also another thing worth mentioning - I don't think you are actually a slow oxidizer.

I also told him many times, he is not a slow oxidizer/ He is 4 highs, meaning both sugar and fat mets ARE GONE. thus has to work only on protein.

 

[Orion]

I also told him many times, he is not a slow oxidizer/ He is 4 highs, meaning both sugar and fat mets ARE GONE. thus has to work only on protein.

B1 and B2/B3/carnitine are doing good things for me so far. But yes sugar and fat eaten together are the worst for me, horrible sleep and oily skin. Protein with vegetables works well. Should have my new hairtest results this week.

 

[Helen]

B1 and B2/B3/carnitine are doing good things for me so far. But yes sugar and fat eaten together are the worst for me, horrible sleep and oily skin. Protein with vegetables works well. Should have my new hairtest results this week.

Yes, you need to feed everything and then we will see your real oxidation rate. Since as of now, both sugar and fats were impaired, For me personally hard to tell which side you were originally at.

 

[Helen]

@Helen so whats the solution? take vitamin C and E? i actually feel like i cant hydrate myself properly.... back in august 2017 the SCIO scanning machine recommended to me to take vitamin C, gelatin, q10 and fish oil...

vitamin C and E, will just turn into free radicals.

 

[supernature]

vitamin C and E, will just turn into free radicals.

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