Sawsides log

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Sawsides

Member
Messages
37
Hello all. Thank you for making this site,

My story

I am 50, In April , 2018 due to fatigue I saw my doctor and he told me my testosterone was lowish and started me on Testosterone cyp inj 140 mg a week. In a month I felt fantastic, was lifting better in the gym, great mood, good energy and libido.

In late August 2018, i developed some irritation in the prostate, urine and exam was normal. I was placed on antibiotic and Saw Palmetto 320 mg daily!! After 10 days I developed total ED. I immediately stopped Saw and antibiotic 3-4 days later I developed the infamous 'crash". Complete insomnia, night sweats, blurred vision, brain fog, disabling anxiety and genital shrinkage prostate and penile pain.. I returned to my doctor and he said he had never seen this with Saw Palmetto. I was placed on Mirtazapine 15 mg which has helped with my sleep. (I am taking 7.5 mg)

Since my primary MD was no help, I reached out to Dr. Crisler after a google search and he did labs including a 24 h urine hormonal Rhine lab. He and I spoke over the phone and he said all my 5AR reduced hormones were low and placed me on a protocol of Testosterone cyp IM 30 mg 3 times a week, Pregnenolone 20 mg twice a day, DHEA 25 mg twice a day and DIM 50 mg twice a day.

I have bad days and some decent days. Brain fog, slow thinking, anxiety ebb and flow. Some days at work are tough! Libido and zest for life are very low. Been able to have sex with help of cials ( diminished sensation) Very first time in my life I have had suicidal thoughts and I have been through major challenges before. Friends family can't believe that a 'herb' could cause all this.

My labs

4/7/18 ( prior to testosterone cyp inj 140 mg weekly)

F Estradiol 15.2 pg/ml (range 7.6 -42.6)
Testosterone total LC/MS 339 ng/dl range( 264-916)
DHEA-sulfate 166 (range 71-375)
Testosterone free 9.3 pg/ml ( range 7.2-24)

4/24/18 ( after 2 weekly of weekly inj 140 mg this was drawn 48 h after in)
Free testosterone 41.2 pg/ml

9/10/18 ( 5 days after 140 mg injection as well as 5 days after stopping Saw Pametto
Free Testosterone 26.4
F Estradiol 28.2

My labs with Dr Crisler (drawn 4 days after 100 mg of T cyp)

TESTOSTERONE, FREE, BIO
AND TOTAL, MS
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 1682 H 250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 527.5 H 46.0-224.0 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE,BIOAVAILABLE 1084.8 H 110.0-575.0 ng/dL

Apart from a Chloride of 98 the chemistry was all normal. I do not have a copy of the 24 h urine.

i have visited all the forums inc ray peat and read a lot of tubZy stacks there, tried some 5 alpha DHP for severe anxiety with some success

My present stack

AM
Vit D3 5000 units
Vitamin A 1000 units
Vitamin K 2
Phospatidyl serene
DIM 50 mg
DHEA 2.5 mg sub lingual ( the 25 mg was making me not feel the entire L side of my head)
Pregnenolone 20 mg
B 6 1000 mg

PM
Mag chloride 400 mg
Niacinamine 1000 mg
Glycine 5 gm
Vitamin E 680 mg
DIM 50 mg

I have only been injecting Testosterone 20 mg twice week as the day after the injection I have major brain fog and anxiety.

I have read this forum and Helen's suggestions at lengh.

My questions

1. Drop all fat soluble vitamins and go on electrolyte protocol ?

2. Increase testosterone to 60-80 a week ?( my levels were off the charts on 140 and 100 mg)

3. Continue with DIM/Pregneolone and DHEA or drop these and add Progesterone (after checking progesterone levels)

4. 6-7 weeks out from my last dose of Saw, what would any of you have done differently looking back at your own situation

I know compared to many here I am only 6-7 weeks off Saw Palmetto. With the vast experience in this group, the supportive attitude, I humbly request your help, assistance and support as I go to war with this evil poison. I remain positive and optimistic of continuing my recovery to 100 %

Many thanks
 
bruschi11

bruschi11

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,995
You got hit bad but understand that your issues are not all hormonal.

Crisler is a crook for treating people with issues like yours with hormones.

You need to fix your health right now. Not your hormones. Eventually once your health is in better place, you may or may not need to tRy some hormonal tricks like those that some guys are trying now to beat this thing.

But that’s then, this is now and you need to fix your health first and foremost.

What happened was the saw palmetto caused an imbalance which led to whatever was already bad in your system to absolutely flourish. You had something wrong with you causing such low T initially.

Now this Imbalance really disarmed your immune system- now you have pathogens, viruses, heavy metals, further imbalances in your system making your body work like absolute shit.

You found the right website, but realize you may have some extreme holistic health work ahead of you including fasting, mineral balancing, liver flushes and so on as you seek to restore your health.
 
Orion

Orion

Well-Known Member
Messages
879
Sawsides said:
B 6 1000 mg
Click to expand...

Mega dosing B6 is not recommended, it can cause nerve damage, 1gram daily is a huge dose.

I would completely drop your AM stack, stop all hormone intake

Start the electrolyte protocol, bile acids, betaine, consider long fast, liver flushes and get a hairtest with sample done in December.
 
S

Sawsides

Member
Messages
37
Thanks Orion,

I looked more closely B6 is 100 mg ( damn this cognitive impairment !!)

I will stop AM stack and have decided to stop Pregnenolol and DHEA ( made me feel spacey and weird) Since I have been on Testosterone since April 2018, do you suggest I just stop it, taper it off or try a PCT.

Is this too early for me to try RU or Ella ?

I will start the electrolyte, bile acid, betaine and liver flush and am considering a short fast.

My thanks to all the folks here, reading the forums has been encouraging.
 
Orion

Orion

Well-Known Member
Messages
879
Sawsides said:
Since I have been on Testosterone since April 2018, do you suggest I just stop it, taper it off or try a PCT.
Click to expand...

100mg B6 is more like it for short term supplementing.

Search the forum on testosterone, @Helen recommends it is only ever taken with progesterone.

Testosterone drives sodium, and progesterone drives potassium, taking just testosterone will cause a big imbalance.

To taper off, 100mg Test per WEEK (~10mg/day), and balance that with few mg of progesterone per day.

I would not try, RU, Ella or anavar, etc, until you have hairtest and blood labs when you are baseline from no supps(december), then make a decision.
 
bruschi11

bruschi11

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,995
I’d get off everything man. Just get off everything and work on your gut, fasting, electrolytes. A lot of what Orion states above.

99% of docs will attack this hormonally initially which is just plain wrong. They weren’t taught correctly lol that’s only way to put it.

I do think there are hormonal options for guys with just sexual issues. But the mental, fatigue etc... these need to be attacked with corrections in your overall health.

There may be a day where you feel normal beyond existing sexual issues. Then this will be time you can attack hoRmonally (or just with minerals, aminos, vitamins). You’ll get there man.
 
R

RebelWithACause

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,714
If you feel ballsy and you want to stay on TRT, you can do the testosterone + progesterone approach. Worth to see if it works well for you. You are on testosterone now anyways.

I got off anabolic steroids a few months ago without PCT and my testosterone levels are in the normal range again (around 640ng/dl). I just used high dose potassium chloride + magnesium chloride in PCT period. I had no problem getting off. No mental problems nothing.

I agree with bruschi though in the long term you want to get off. Unless you are willing to do TRT + progesterone for the rest of your life.
 
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MNK99

MNK99

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,560
Yeah same with Bruschi and RWAC. I think that near cured... all these things won't hurt us... BUT* initially or with crazy facial changes, vision changes, severe depression, CFS, etc... no......... tho I don't know obviously every single case that has ever happened.
 
S

Sawsides

Member
Messages
37
My 24 h urine results Dutch test
Done 18 days after last dose Saw Palmetto and 4 days after testosterone 100 mg 09F738F0-B388-4166-9824-2322CC474D09.jpeg09F738F0-B388-4166-9824-2322CC474D09.jpeg788B7658-8376-40BE-B5B2-794F2192E93E.jpeg
 
R

RebelWithACause

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,714
No problem. Are you going to get off the testosterone or stay on?

If you get off:

Just take dose everyday before bed. Or on day itself if you like but I do not feel great after taking it. Take it before bed and it is OK.

I had 2 weeks or so with lower energy in the beginning in period off. Nothing bad. No depression, nothing. Just lower energy.

In 2 months you should get hairtest to see mineral balance (is your zinc tanked for example from using exogonous testosterone) and blood test to see hormones.

Good luck bro.
 
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RebelWithACause

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,714
Sawsides said:
Thanks bro,

I tapered and stopped testosterone on Oct 24th.
Did juice fast this week.
I feel a lot of fatigue and some anxiety, not sure this is PFS or testosterone withdrawal (prob both LOL)

Yes I do plan on the hair test , I have been reading the forum and see a lot of success with the TEI.

Thanks bro
Click to expand...

Alright man. Just keep on trucking for at least 4 weeks.

You can also do posture exercise by Mike Cernovich, scroll down to "The Abundance Posture":

Posture

He also recovered from TRT QUICK without PCT and did these.

Not sure if they will do anything immediately but it cannot hurt. I also did them.
 
S

Sawsides

Member
Messages
37
Since this past Tuesday I have developed crazy anxiety that is seriously interfering with work and life, no palpitations or sweating. I am using 500 mg Mag chloride and ~ 400 mg Potassium chloride. B vitamin, bile factors and Wobenzyme with meals ( laid off the Betaine HCL as I read that it may cause anxiety). It been 2.5 weeks since I stopped my testosterone which I was on for 7 months. I have completely stopped all caffeine as well.

Is this the testosterone withdrawal/ PFS from Saw Palmetto a combo of both.

Brain fog surprisingly is not as severe.

Any suggestions/ideas of how to combat this? I am thinking seriously of a Vodka or a Xanax
 
Goose12

Goose12

Well-Known Member
Messages
648
Sawsides said:
Since this past Tuesday I have developed crazy anxiety that is seriously interfering with work and life, no palpitations or sweating. I am using 500 mg Mag chloride and ~ 400 mg Potassium chloride. B vitamin, bile factors and Wobenzyme with meals ( laid off the Betaine HCL as I read that it may cause anxiety). It been 2.5 weeks since I stopped my testosterone which I was on for 7 months. I have completely stopped all caffeine as well.

Is this the testosterone withdrawal/ PFS from Saw Palmetto a combo of both.

Brain fog surprisingly is not as severe.

Any suggestions/ideas of how to combat this? I am thinking seriously of a Vodka or a Xanax
Click to expand...
My anxiety post saw was rediculously high and constant. The only thing that gave me some momentary relief was l dopa. I only used it for special occasions because I was worried it would lose affect.

I advocate for tei but ru greatly reduced my anxiety after each cycle. Not everyone benifited from it but since your a saw suffer also it might be an option.

Beatine does cause anxiety so hopefully its the cause.
 
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