Another recovery I found

[Snell1234]

Another recovery I found. He took fenugreek and complained of the same symptoms as us - pfs.

Fenugreek is also a progestin.

See the comments at the end of the article for the information (I will cut and paste here for ease of reference).

https://www.anabolicmen.com/fenugreek-testosterone/

Comment 1

I have had non-existent libido several times on fenugreek. But this last
time was the worst. It is almost classic symptoms of the guys who were
injured by finasteride (Propecia).

Morning erections, gone. Random erections, never. I had difficulty
getting aroused. I just plain had no interest in sex. Maintaining an
erection was difficult because I just couldn't keep myself interested.
And I felt no desire to self service in the off time.

I started to become more emotional. I lost my alpha feeling. My muscle
tissue became softer and I couldn't get a pump worth a damn while
working out. Another thing that was really pronounced that I had never
felt before was a lack of interest in working out. I would get to the
gym and no matter what I did beforehand or how focused I tried to be, I
had an insatiable desire to leave early. None of my lifts felt good. I
had no mental encouragement. It was awful.

And in the weeks, or month or more after ceasing, I was still feeling
this. I'm finally starting to normalize, but with assistance.

The fmen's health supplement industry pisses me off. Every product, even multivitamins, have either saw palmetto
or pumpkin seed in them under the guise of "prostate support." Are these
motherfuckers stupid, because it's elevated estrogen that's causing the
epidemic of prostatic hyperplasia, not DHT!

I'm sick and tired of the war on DHT from supplement companies that
either don't know the real science or are trying to appeal to common
misnomers in marketing.

Screw Testofen. I will never take this crap ever again.

Comment 2

Yes, recovered, but not without a really comprehensive herbal recovery program and time. I used Cistanche, Royal Jelly, Pine Pollen Tincture, Tongkat Ali (the good stuff, from Super Man Herbs), Shilajit and 50% icariin to get myself back on track. It was a nightmare, but I'm happy to report I'm back to normal.

 

[Scenes]

Why do you think those herbs worked for him? What was he trying to achieve?

 

[Snell1234]

Why do you think those herbs worked for him? What was he trying to achieve?

Likely that it was the pine pollen tincture that did it for him. Gbold recommends it as a treatment for some cases.

 

[Walker]

This is the same recovery as Freepressright on Swole Source, just an FYI. All his posts regarding this on there would relate to this, and in a little more detail if you want to add them here, Snell.

 

[TubZy]

Well it could make more sense now that a lot of chinese herbs are estrogenic. I posted a study a while back showing schisandra up-regulating the ER, so if the ER gets up regulated that would help make DHT sensitive again.

Someone today posted about other chinese herbs being estrogenic as well.

 

[Walker]

Well it could make more sense now that a lot of chinese herbs are estrogenic. I posted a study a while back showing schisandra up-regulating the ER, so if the ER gets up regulated that would help make DHT sensitive again.

Someone today posted about other chinese herbs being estrogenic as well.

For what it's worth, just touching on this one in particular, during my recovery - schisandra was one of my favorites. I got a huge mood boost and overall boost during it, and now I don't really get much from it. I've trimmed the herbs I still use down quite a bit since crossing the plateau.

 

[Snell1234]

Well it could make more sense now that a lot of chinese herbs are estrogenic. I posted a study a while back showing schisandra up-regulating the ER, so if the ER gets up regulated that would help make DHT sensitive again.

Someone today posted about other chinese herbs being estrogenic as well.

For what it's worth, just touching on this one in particular, during my recovery - schisandra was one of my favorites. I got a huge mood boost and overall boost during it, and now I don't really get much from it. I've trimmed the herbs I still use down quite a bit since crossing the plateau.

Did you recover from pfs? Was it propecia or saw palmetto (or another)? What regime did you follow to recover?

 

[Canari]

There were more interesting comments...
"I am so glad you said this "The fmen's health supplement industry pisses me off. Every product, even multivitamins, have either saw palmetto
or pumpkin seed in them under the guise of "prostate support." Are these
motherfuckers stupid, because it's elevated estrogen that's causing the
epidemic of prostatic hyperplasia, not DHT!" - It's soooo true man."

"Preach it brother, I've been going on about this for the last couple of years. Agree with every word."

"Wow ive had the same god awful nasty reaction from fenugreek usage. My nuts shrank up in there flaccid state...awful. How you doing mate...you recovered?"

"Jesus, how much were you taking?! I take 1000 mg a day maximum and I feel fantastic. No erection problems what so ever, in fact they have become more powerful than ever, orgasms have become insane, my sex drive has sky rocketed, and my energy levels are through the roof. I honestly think you were taking far too much."

"This idiot must have taken in elephant doses.."
(Canari thinking: "I have seen this sort of supposition before... making the answer instead of the question!")

Nope. If you're sensitive to 5-AR inhibition, it doesn't take more than a therapeutic dose to trigger the side effects. I had all of them. No sex drive, brain fog, lack of motivation, no gym pumps anymore -- you name it, I had it. All on a recommended daily dose.
Some people can take this supplement and some can't. I'm one of the ones who can't.

Then a guy says "I needed to treat BPH. and bph is best treated with 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. so it seems fenugreek seed is the real natural thing to treat BPH or any kind of prostate enlargement. Thanks a ton. I just figured the relationship through you article."

and the guy of the testimony answers:

"I'd rather see folks get a comprehensive blood panel to see what their estradiol/estrogen levels are, as well as their test levels, since the new research is pointing to elevated estrogen in males as the cause of BPH and not DHT."
"Since DHT really isn't the root cause of enlarged prostate, that's just a dumb strategy. New research has shown a relationship between elevated estrogen and BPH. Before ever using Propecia (chemical castration), you should get a comprehensive hormone panel and look at estrogen/estradiol levels."

 

[Canari]

But look here...
http://www.testosteroneboostersreview.com/research/fenugreek/

The researchers concluded their experiment by saying that these results indicate that Fenugreek “incompletely inhibited aromatase and 5-α reductase activity while significantly increasing total and bioavailable testosterone levels, as well as decreasing percent body fat, in conjunction with a resistance-training program“.

My take on this is that these results are actually what you should expect of an aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor. You see, aromatase is the enzyme responsible for converting testosterone into estrogen while 5a-reductase is what converts testosterone into DHT. Therefore, by inhibiting these two, you should theoretically get more “free” testosterone.

For us men, inhibiting estrogen is mostly a good thing because we’re then left with a better testosterone:estrogen ratio leading to more muscle and libido with less feminine characteristics like man boobs. DHT on the other hand, is a more potent androgen than testosterone so generally, you shouldn’t mess with this hormone unless you have too much.

Based on the research, I can say that Fenugreek has a justified purpose in men’s health supplements for sex and bodybuilding. Specifically for sex, its benefits don’t seem limited to just libido or sexual desire but even spreads out to a better orgasm.

In bodybuilding, the goal is to get bigger and stronger muscles with less fat. As research shows, combining Fenugreek and resistance training seems to enhance all these characteristics.

For testosterone though, Fenugreek honestly looks a little weak. Admittedly, it does have testosterone boosting potential because of its ability to inhibit aromatase and 5a-reductase so to me, it still does warrant inclusion in testosterone boosters. However, with contradicting studies saying that it does boost T while a couple others say that it doesn’t, I personally think that Fenugreek is better as a performance and libido enhancer rather than a natural testosterone booster.

 

[Walker]

Well it could make more sense now that a lot of chinese herbs are estrogenic. I posted a study a while back showing schisandra up-regulating the ER, so if the ER gets up regulated that would help make DHT sensitive again.

Someone today posted about other chinese herbs being estrogenic as well.

For what it's worth, just touching on this one in particular, during my recovery - schisandra was one of my favorites. I got a huge mood boost and overall boost during it, and now I don't really get much from it. I've trimmed the herbs I still use down quite a bit since crossing the plateau.

Did you recover from pfs? Was it propecia or saw palmetto (or another)? What regime did you follow to recover?

Snell, I'm Maxout. I came to this forum after chatting with TubZy through SS PMs.

 

[Snell1234]

For what it's worth, just touching on this one in particular, during my recovery - schisandra was one of my favorites. I got a huge mood boost and overall boost during it, and now I don't really get much from it. I've trimmed the herbs I still use down quite a bit since crossing the plateau.

Did you recover from pfs? Was it propecia or saw palmetto (or another)? What regime did you follow to recover?

Snell, I'm Maxout. I came to this forum after chatting with TubZy through SS PMs.

Ahh that makes sense.

 

[Area-1255]

Nice!