Balance, context and oxidation types

[Canari]

Context & balance is not about right or wrong and can often avoid arguing.

Wish to gain this (all about context) :
¿What context correspond to what diet?
¿Can we adapt part of a certain diet, and how to not destabilize it (and ourselves)? :nailbiting:
¿How to adapt to my country / climate / food avaibility?
¿Can I take this mineral / vitamine, because xx or xy got a good result?
...¿what is humanly universal, and what is contextual?
¿How to know this? :hairpull

This thread is to gather quotes and ideas from the web and ourselves, and to understand how to ask questions (to others or oneself) in context or how to understand answers. Some questions cannot be asked out of context, such as "is this bad, or good, or what would you do to..." without doing the job of understanding the past answers and the context!

Context & balance are more than what we are used to take into account. Let's blame school for this! Often for me, put balance in practice is a real puzzle for my brain ! wooo... "When this is high, this can lower, there are antagonists and also agonists... Is it not enough hormones, or my receptors are not enough sensitive?" or what!

When we do not understand, we tend to:
- be triggered by old school shames!
- think the other is wrong and tell it too quick.
- skip context... :emoji_horse_racing:

So it can end like "But you said this...", and "no I did not, this was for another context..."
And also "But this study said this...". I have seen enough evidence that you can have other results for different people or a different country, or different rats! They synthesize vitamine C and we do not, etc. Therefore many studies show one thing or its contrary.

Also, in a forum, we need to know how much we are the same and how much we are different from others, or else we cannot help each other safely.

 

[Canari]

There is a tendency on the web, to stick to diets where they send you not only the menu but the list of "what to buy"!!!
And the same perfect diet for all. This was ok when people were eating local and the same generation after generation. Now our gut bacterias are as mix up as we are.
Those diets work as far as they touch what we all have in common: eat natural non processed food whenever you can.

- in a special diet you are forced to eat a certain way. But it has to be given to you by somebody who works with you and your context.
- Or else you have to do it alone and be able to appreciate the context, and go your way with trial and errors.
If we do not know how to feel ourselves, then we cannot get anywhere safe!

What is the trap when we are so focused on health? Help others through our most recent understanding ...and skip context.
"I told sugar and milk is good. I recommended progesterone to people. "
Do you have a problem is you realize it was not a good advise? No, sugar and milk are still good, according to context. But you cannot recommend progesterone to people without being a specialist.

The farthest I think I can go is to give a track for somebody else to follow, and to say clearly that it is all about context and for people to investigate. Honestly, I will not throw the first stone, nor the second or any, because I do tend to tell about my last discovery. Well, less and less, maybe because I have many new discoveries!

Context is to not ask if you should be brown or white!

and this:

And a bit lost during transitions!

:?

 

[Canari]

"And that it is way more complex. One guy drinks alcohol and another smokes cigarettes, third lifts , and another one jerks off non stop. ALL of them have the same chemistry? LMAO of course not and diets will be different, since they are screwing their balance in different ways."

About making tests personally:

"I am giving you this information for no cost from my heart and I swear that what I am saying is the truth. Maybe my population is not big, but it is something real, at least for me. These are the results that I got and no one can take this away from me. I am not selling anything to anyone, and I am not giving advice or helping anyone."

"If you are a fast oxidizer as your practitioner was telling you, then no wonder Peats diet works for you. Fast oxidizer needs copper and calcium and they usually run low on sugar. Peats diet is ideal for you in this case. But you are a minority. I always tell them to do Peats diet, it saved me time explaining. And all of them do well on Peats diet.
calcium lowers metabolism and copper lowers metabolism.
Peats diet increases sodium potassium ratio.
So for people who have lower calcium and low sodium to potassium ratio, Ray peats diet is ideal.
Ray Peats diet is nothing but one sided diet for certain body chemistry for a certain period of time. It is not ideally balanced, since copper and calcium in that diet prevails, and copper zinc ratio will be always impaired and calcium magnesium ratio will also be impaired in the end.

So basically I chose diets that matched many metabolic types and then I would just tell people to do this or that diet according to their type. And that cost no money.

Also you can go from one balance to another, and lets say you do Peat for a while and boom then you will feel bad, since you will go into slow oxidation and Peat won't be good for you anymore."

 

[Canari]

I find this veeeery important to understand:
"Of course You can be ABCD deficient." Vs "MY body downregulated"

"there is a huge difference between deficiency and regulatory levels."

"I say that cortisol and serotonin are raised in certain situations to save you. But they are raised for purpose not as a mistake."

When it is about a regulation coming from the body, examples:

Cortisol is raised for survival to get you protein when pancreas go down.

Serotonin is raised to support brain function.

 

[Canari]

Also look at the general topic "What is an oxidation type?"
http://www.hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=63
First, the compilation by m_arch:

Slow Oxidisers / Hypoventilation (high blood co2, low cell cmo2) / Adrenaline < Serotonin :

1) low adrenaline with normal serotonin
2) high serotonin and normal adrenaline
3) low adrenaline and low serotonin but adrenaline is lower than serotonin
4) high adrenaline and high serotonin, but serotonin is increased higher than adrenaline.

All these need to be corrected differently. You need to find out why you have low adrenaline, is it because of SamE, or is it from a methylation block? These will cause high CO2 in venous blood and will cause potassium to decrease in the cell thus lowering metabolism.

Off hand comment: “If you have a low metabolism you either lack progesterone ( potassium) or you lack sympathetic nervous system which does not allow your potassium to rise.”

Note: High co2 in blood means the body is getting too acidic, thus it will slow metabolism down and not produce co2 in the cell due to concern that it will not be able to expel the co2 fast enough in the breath, causing acidosis and death. The opposite is true of a fast oxidiser.

Gbolduev comments:

slow oxidizers rarely have high insulin, only can get it high on a high sugar diet, Since they are forcing metabolism higher without the sympathetic nervous system. This causes the body to increase insulin but their body does not need this. It does not want to increase metabolism. Sugar metabolism increases too much Co2. Sugar is kept low inside of the cell. Thyroid is kept low in a slow oxidizer ON PURPOSE. People will be losing hair, getting fatter, if they try to increase metabolism in slow oxidation without solving sympathetic nervous system problem. Thus if all these people don't take tons of caffeine, they are screwed. And caffeine makes them screwed over time also. Since it desensitizes their adrenaline receptors which are already low.

You can't take anything that speeds up slow oxidizer, without actually supporting anti oxidation system. Or else this will ruin their blood vessels. I saw people on thyroid hormones with ruined blood vessels in 5-6 years. That is why some slow oxidizer can have severe shortness of breath on progesterone, since they need zinc not progesterone. And their progesterone levels will go up on zinc, but at the same time this will offer a support for their CA enzyme.

Insulin resistance is regulatory in these people and hypothyrodism is regulatory in these cases also. Since the body can't handle oxidative stress and can't handle any CO2 production.

A Slow oxidizer is basically adrenaline insensitive. That is why a slow oxidizer is retaining salt in the cell and not loosing it in the hair and loosing magnesium in the hair to increase adrenaline sensitivity. Fasting will restore your adrenaline insensitivity. A slow oxidizer is full of copper, you can chelate copper with vitamin C.

Copper is retained by slow oxidizers to support the adrenal gland. When methylation and adrenal gland becomes better, copper is being dumped with calcium. That is why dont stuff yourself with vitamin D supps. this will lower your ceruloplasmin and wont allow you to use copper properly.

How do you feel about cold showers or ice baths??

Good, I use cold showers sometimes. and I swim in cold sea in the winter. If you are slow oxidizer that is good for, increases adrenaline receptors.

Slow oxidizers have tons of sugar in their blood. they don't need fats.They store fats.You eat sugar, you store fats. Majority of people overeat and don't exercise, this is what stores PUFA. You can't not eat pufa, it is everywhere. That is why fasting is so good. You burn all your pufa in 30 days. and then if you don't overeat, you never store it, and you don't have too much of it pouring into your blood stream during stress.

is easy bruising and slow healing a typical occurrence for slow oxidizers?

yes typical for a slow oxidizer.

 

[Canari]

a person can have slow ventilation if

1) low adrenaline( lack of SamE) as an example with normal serotonin
2) high serotonin and normal adrenaline
3)low adrenaline and low serotonin but adrenaline is lower than serotonin
4) high adrenaline and high serotonin, but serotonin is increased higher than adrenaline.

All these need to be corrected differently. Low adrenaline is not corrected with caffeine. You can find out why you have low adrenaline , where is your problem, is it with the SamE, or is it from methylation block. And all these will cause high CO2 in venous blood and will cause potassium to decrease in the cell thus lowering metabolism

Just understand . in alklaosis potassium goes inside of the cell this increases metabolism,. in acidosis potassium goes outside of the cell, it decreases metabolism. It is very obvious and logical, since metabolism increases acidity by creating CO2.

SO if you are more acidic then body will want to lower metabolism to decrease production of CO2. and if you more alkaline body will want to increase metabolism to increase production of CO2.

For myself I usually get hairtest, VBG ( CO2, bicarbonate, electrolytes, standard test with the special machine in the hospital) and I get urine cathecolamines with serotonin. This gives me full picture

If you dont move you dont activate your symathetic nervous system you breath slower. This causes Co2 retention and kreb cycle will be stoped to balance the PH.

You should read again what I write. Most sick people are CO2 retainers. I worked with 100s of them ,Mattyb works with them also and confirms the same trends, of 1000s tests.

You dont move and eat , you retain CO2. You simply don;t breath out the CO2 that you create, this leads metabolism to slow down.

Grof uses holotropic breathing all the time. He is a slow oxidizer and hypoventilates as a base. Do you even understand what I write?
Crazy , people call you full of ***t and yet not able to comprehend simple things

I say that most people hypoventilate that is why they need to exercise more so they breathe faster.

You can do the same with holotropic breathing . This is what Grof has been doing all his life.

Some people hyperventilate and have low Co2 levels. but as you read in my thread the posts from MAttyB who works with respiration , those are the minority, I had exactly same tests in my practice, where low Co2 people were the minority.

 

[Canari]

When you eat sugar all the time. Adrenaline receptors and cortisol receptors will be low. And then during times of stress, you will need a lot more of these hormones produced to do the same job. This is how you get constant high levels of cortisol. and also adrenaline insensitivity ( SLOW OXIDIZERS)

NO one needs to push cortisol levels higher. That just makes no sense. You need to keep pressure on cortisol from time to time (fasting). Since there is no way you can run solely on sugar from food.

I eat plenty of sugar and carbs. I eat 30-60% of my diet from carbs, but I don't just stuff myself with sugar.

Dairy has hormones, plus dairy is not that good for slow oxidizers.

Are you saying for more sedentary people they should avoid a high copper diet but for those who force exercise a higher copper diet of seafood and shell fish is ok? Thank you

Yes. Especially liver. Liver is a NO NO for the slow oxidizer. LIVER IS full of copper. and slow oxidizers livers are full of copper. Fast oxidizers hyperventilate they have strong sympathetic system, they are getting rid of copper and their ceruloplasmins are high . they need more calcium and magnesium to slow down the sympathetic nervous system , this will stop their copper losses.

this is why when you are sick with certain cancer, you just go and run run run run / this will get rid of unbound copper , it will speed up your metabolism. and cure your cancer.

ou cant be cured without fasting if you already got sick and you are a slow oxidizer.

Slow oxidizers should never take mildronate.

Hormones only need to be used as contrarian. lets say if you are a slow oxidizer-- you are high copper. If you take estrogen, that will chelate your copper( like resveratrol does). and when you quit estrogen , this will increase your metabolic baseline.

If you take progesterone, that will chelate your zinc. and after quiting progesterone your met rate will be slower than before. Thus this helps some fast oxidizers.

For the slow oxidizer to do ok on Peat, you need to take tons of hormones, which will increase your energy but will make you worse in the end since you as a slow oxidizer cant handle the oxidative stress of the increased metabolism . your body lowers your metabolism on purpose and you just force it with thyroids and progesterones.

 

[Canari]

Light therapy and contrarian endocrinology is the future. People don't become short on minerals, their life style makes them loose or retain certain minerals.

This is why light therapy works. It affects the mineral retention. Red Light therapy chelates copper since it increases adrenaline. Red light is used in Eck's system to chelate copper. Some people do good on blue light, Some people do good on green light.

Soon a machine will be created where you can get balanced on a daily basis just sleeping with certain light sequences. I am looking into this also. Just imagine, you can get tested, if you are slow oxidizer, more red light sequences, fast oxidizers more blue light sequences. And you are balanced all the time.

I am not on ketogenic diet. I have good metabolism. I never gain weight. You gain weight when your sympathetic nervous system is down. you either lack adrenaline you are you high on serotonin. Most cases lack adrenaline. Some case are high on serotonin. this slows down your breathing rate, and you retain Co2 , which lowers your metabolism not to create more Co2 and you gain weight. thyroid in this cases increases metabolism but body cant use copper in this body chemistry thus your SODs are down. body lowerd your metabolism on purpose but you force it up with thyroid hormone, thinking you are smarter than your body

.

 

[Canari]

Classify people into SLOWS and FASTS is useful to start stating we are all different, and still having some similitudes with other people, thus helping us to start with a strategy as close as possible to our needs. It is checked out with a hair test and your hair tests results are unique. There are many slows and many fasts. The hair test is not meant to be used in isolation.

It is much easier to label people otherwise we can't help them at all. The easiest is the hair test which will label the pH case. Of course saying "slow or fast" will be limited but at least it would be something, for people not to get lost.

Every oxidation rate has its symptoms. The most energy you will get in the middle of oxidation. This is why longevity answer is the balance, not faster or slower.

Find out your metabolic rate and then adjust your diet and your activity to it. That is all. Try not to supplement anything. Unless it has full array of all minerals in it.

You have to apply a life style which is applicable to your body chemistry. Genetically you can be created with let's say stronger adrenaline release than serotonin. You will not be able to change this fact with anything. You can support it with the minerals or change the life style to fit your body chemistry.

This is why every person has to listen to themselves and do what is good for them. And never follow some weird Internet recs or diets. There is no perfect diet, as a perfect diet is different for everyone. For some, a sedentary life style will be healthy, for others sedentary is death. For some pufa is good, for others death.

 

[Canari]

I try to explain to people that you have to learn about yourself and never be in a herd. It won't work being in a herd. Just look at people, some do good on thyroid, others get hurt on thyroid, others crash on DHEA, others will crash on pregnenolone and lose their hair.

People are all different and need to know how to test which case they are. I will be posting here the oxidation rates, how to find them, how to see what you are. But unfortunately it will be over time, since I have no time really and will do it when I do have free time.

I will try to explain in this thread how to diagnose yourself and will outline 12 cases and more. Then you can take what you need for that case and follow a life style for that case and follow a diet for that specific case.

You can try to study Ecks work, read at least some articles on Wilsons site. He is a little crazy, but he outlines the cases at least. But I will try to explain these cases not from hair perspective but from pH perspective.

You can read books on anesthesiology, since these are the only people who know body regulations. I have no idea why only doctors who deal with critically ill patients know anything. May be because it is life and death at that very moment.

Yes, I agree, medicine let you go worse so that they can finally do something for you! I must say that anyway we all tend to be better in urgency cases, and give all we can.

 

[brix]

does having high blood glucose guarantee I am a slow oxidizer?
What other blood tests would point in the right direction if I do not have the means for a hair test?

 

[Canari]

Types are correlated to the state of the nervous system.

Here you can download the pdf of the book from Colin & Loren Chatsworth "Energy, how it affects your emotions etc" 485p.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/energy-fatigue-and-exhaustion-an-interview-with-paul-eck.13501/

And this pdf by Wilson explains the different types.
http://www.hairanalysistest.biz/TheOxidationTypes.pdf

http://traceelements.com/EducationalResources/NewsLetter.aspx (a lot to read too!)
This lab followed the line of Watts, who developed the research as a partnership with Eck, before going separate ways.
They determined the functions and interactions of all the minerals in the body and how to optimize them.
And here is a shorter pdf, very interesting: https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/healthview-newsletter-27-29-pdf.6484/
http://drlwilson.com/Books/balancing.htm

 

[Canari]

A very good video to understand context about breathing:

http://www.yogabody.com/episode-203-dangers-benefits-breathing/

It perfectly states that Buteyko's idea does not match ALL people no ALL moments for each of us.

As we know now, too much CO2 is not what a slow oxidizer will look for. This yoga teacher says he made this video exactly to make people understand how wrong they are to focus on only one method of breathing.

 

[Canari]

As this is from Gbolduev without being full quote (I made a condensé from various similar quotes), I put "..." and not use the quote system.

"People who work out are most likely fast oxidizers, since they activate their sympathetic nervous system at all times. Fast oxidizers are a minority, and a Ray Peat diet is good for them, because it slows down their too fast metabolism. They feel good on dairy/calcium because they have acidosis in venous blood and calcium gets in to buffer it. They also do good on a diet full of sugar and copper.

Fast oxidizers hyperventilate, they have a strong sympathetic system, they are getting rid of copper and their ceruloplasmin levels are high. They need more calcium and magnesium to slow down the sympathetic nervous system, this will stop their copper losses.

If they decrease their sympathetic nervous system and ventilate slower, this puts the pressure off their calcium metabolism and their venous pH gets more alkaline and their cells gets more acidic.

A fast oxidizer has either COMT problems, MAO problems, or lack of magnesium or too sensitive adrenaline receptors. That is why they should not fast. In that case, the cure for the fast oxidizer is to lower his adrenaline sensitivity and this can be done by adrenaline mimics. You give adrenaline to lower adrenaline sensitivity, and then you come off.

fast oxidizers are running on fats

Fast oxidizers have lower thyroid value labs. It does not mean they are hypothyroid. they are hyperthyroid. this is where all these people are confused.
I look at thyroid effect in the cell, not some thyroid hormones which you interpret not correctly.

From 1000s of hairtests and blood tests, I can assure you fast oxidizers have high insulin levels"

 

[Canari]

"The different possibilities in fast oxidation:

1) lack of serotonin (does good on active B6 - P5P) does good on serotonin precursors and normal adrenaline
2) too much adrenaline ( lack of COMT) and normal serotonin.
3) magnesium deficiency.
4) too sensitive adrenaline receptors."

High serotonin people are more often fast oxidizer than slow, since serotonin is trying to slow down their sympathetic nervous system."

Mildronate matches only certain body chemistries. It helps insulin resistance and forces fast oxidizers to slow down, thus it is used with sports people. Slow oxidizers should never take it.

High insulin is usually in fast oxidizers, not slow. I have seen very little insulin levels in slow hypothyroid people. I see high insulin in every other case of fast oxidation.

Do the hairtest of those "insulin resistant" people. most of them will be fast oxidizers with the increased thyroid effect in the cell. And it is not insulin resistance at all. it is normal regulation of another problem

 

[Canari]

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] if I understood well it seems that some fast oxidizers can be confused with slow?

He could be a fast oxidizer in 4 lows, burned out fast oxidizer…

there was also this question:
"Is it true that immunosuppressants can make you fast oxidizer?"

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/Oxidation Types 1104.htm

 

[Ivy]

I'm struggling with this particular quote:

A Slow oxidizer is basically adrenaline insensitive. That is why a slow oxidizer is retaining salt in the cell and not loosing it in the hair and loosing magnesium in the hair to increase adrenaline sensitivity. Fasting will restore your adrenaline insensitivity. A slow oxidizer is full of copper, you can chelate copper with vitamin C.

Surely he means fasting will restore your adrenaline sensitivity, right?

 

[Canari]

I'm struggling with this particular quote:

Fasting will restore your adrenaline insensitivity.

Surely he means fasting will restore your adrenaline sensitivity, right?

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] ?
I think so... or "Fasting will resolve your adrenaline insensitivity problem."

I am struggling with more things in this quote...
- Does adrenaline insensitivity means there is a lot, but it does not work?
...or not enough is produced?
Or those 2 cases are possible?

Also, the relationship with the minerals is not clear to me, but we can look for the informations.

 

[Amber]

I'm struggling with this particular quote:

A Slow oxidizer is basically adrenaline insensitive. That is why a slow oxidizer is retaining salt in the cell and not loosing it in the hair and loosing magnesium in the hair to increase adrenaline sensitivity. Fasting will restore your adrenaline insensitivity. A slow oxidizer is full of copper, you can chelate copper with vitamin C.

Surely he means fasting will restore your adrenaline sensitivity, right?

Yes, thats what he meant

 

[Aleksandr]

So basically if you take 30mg zinc and 10mg manganese every day for a year, as well as do a few fasts and other adrenaline increasing thibgs like cold showers, you should cover both bases to make your oxdidation faster in a healthier way.

Ive been doing mild versions of these like intermittent fasting and reduced ejaculation and im getting benefit (increased energy). Im going to start a zinc mangabese combo soon and fast one day a week