Brainstorming & Ideas (PFS - Gbol)

[TubZy]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2622" time="1508910720" user_id="66"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2621" time="1508909245" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2615" time="1508905209" user_id="66"><s>

</s>
<br/>
<br/>
Lol man. Holy shit. <br/>
<br/>
I took licorice root because it was just a herb and i didn't want to do anything hardcore. <br/>
I've just gotten over the flu, so i'm not sure if its because of the licorice root (so i'm gonna leave my log post update until saturday the last day of my 'snapback' for this cycle) but.....<br/>
<br/>
Even licorice root appears to be powerful stuff. I'm having adrenaline-like surges like crazy. When I stand up and move around a bit, my heart rate shoots up to 115 bpm. No more light headedness, thats for damn sure. After eating, it shoots up to 75-80 bpm. My scalp feels all warm and tingly. <br/>
<br/>
Before this my heart rate was often under 50 at rest. Usually around 55. On ray peat diet it seemed to be around 50-60. I even took t3 once to try to raise my heart rate, barely got it to 70. Now its at 75 if i'm just doing general work on a computer.<br/>
<br/>
Now it seems consistently at 60 at rest. It was 55 upon waking this morning COMPLETELY relaxed and motionless, but seems to spike higher and more easily.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Lol..are you doing the weekend only licorice root routine?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Yep. I did a teaspoon of licorice root powder in tea 3x sunday and monday, now is my second day off it.<br/>
<br/>
My dry eyes seem to be completely fixed already, in fact they almost feel too full of blood. Before i used to press at them a lot when they were dry, but maybe i was just trying to get more bloodflow into my eye balls.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Have you tried the licorice root yet tubzy? Id recommend lower doses to start with for sure. Next time i do it ill probably just do 1/4th teaspoon 3x a day for 2 days, then 5 days off. <br/>
<br/>
1/4th the dose lol
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

I got the 4:1 extract from bulk supplements on Sunday, I tried one dose then I felt wired and kind of weird. I only did one dose since it started it towards the end of Sunday. My plan is to fully start it this weekend</r>

 

[Rid]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2692" time="1508976035" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2622" time="1508910720" user_id="66"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2621" time="1508909245" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<br/>
<br/>
Lol..are you doing the weekend only licorice root routine?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Yep. I did a teaspoon of licorice root powder in tea 3x sunday and monday, now is my second day off it.<br/>
<br/>
My dry eyes seem to be completely fixed already, in fact they almost feel too full of blood. Before i used to press at them a lot when they were dry, but maybe i was just trying to get more bloodflow into my eye balls.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Have you tried the licorice root yet tubzy? Id recommend lower doses to start with for sure. Next time i do it ill probably just do 1/4th teaspoon 3x a day for 2 days, then 5 days off. <br/>
<br/>
1/4th the dose lol
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

I got the 4:1 extract from bulk supplements on Sunday, I tried one dose then I felt wired and kind of weird. I only did one dose since it started it towards the end of Sunday. My plan is to fully start it this weekend
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

hey guys, wanted to chime in about my use with licorice root. I've been using lic root extract (the same 4:1 powder) for over 3 months now. I've been using it intermittently after hearing of multiple recoveries from PSSD/PFS using it. <br/>
<br/>
I notice that when I over-use it in succession at 1/4 teaspoon I will start to feel pretty shitty, and start to crash, I think there's a delicate balance of using it to up baseline. for me, if I use too much or am out of balance due to lack of sleep/diet/stress/whatever, then my body will suffer and crash quickly. but if I am in good health than I can increase my baseline ever so slightly with the right moderation. Edit: wanted to note that one person who recovered from PSSD rec'd absolutely no more than 475mg a day for as long as needed (little less than 1/4th tsp for at least 6 months)<br/>
<br/>
The theory we were thinking earlier on swolesource where we had a similar thread was that it's a mild DHT inhibitor, and after understanding that many in our situation have recovered using other DHT inhibitors, we logically assumed that it's mild enough not to crash us, but to give us an increase in our baseline, and I can say that it has helped me; but it has also very much brought me down before. so be careful. I would not recommend using if youre not in a good routine and if it makes you start to crash you've obviously used too much. <br/>
<br/>
with that being said, I think we're on to something with the theories here. i'm glad yall are all so willing to guinea pig this, but be careful haha, we're definitely playing with fire, but it very well could pay off, but as with everything, there will be those who benefit, and those who suffer from this.</r>

 

[Scenes]

Isn’t the whole theory that Licorice Root allows estrogen to rise so dht will rise as well in response?

[mention]TubZy[/mention] [mention]IHateFin[/mention]

I feel like all this gbold talk gave us clear direction but nothing has quite worked as expected and now we’re just experimenting with everything that’s been tried before.

Is the Licorice Root cycling the difference here?

 

[barbaar]

From the gbol corner:

for the brain to turn on DHT, you need estrogen UNBOUND. And with high progesterone this does not happen.

any anti progestin turns on this process back and reverses it in days.

But if you stayed in this situation for a very long time. It will take time for you to completely restore the nervous system, since you did have copper deficiency for a long time.

But it will get completely restored in a year or so.

[mention]Scenes[/mention] maybe things are working as expected, but we need to be patient to see the full effect. I've been dealing with PSSD for like two years now, and many others for even longer. These anti progestins definitely give us a kick in the right direction, but I don't think it's likely to see complete reversal overnight. Maybe it takes more than one cycle. I'm already pretty happy we found something that seems to actually have an effect, even if it's not the overnight cure we were hoping for.

 

[TubZy]

Isn’t the whole theory that Licorice Root allows estrogen to rise so dht will rise as well in response?

@TubZy @IHateFin

I feel like all this gbold talk gave us clear direction but nothing has quite worked as expected and now we’re just experimenting with everything that’s been tried before.

Is the Licorice Root cycling the difference here?

What hasn't worked as expected, there are multiple logs on going now and some that have just finished with RU and Ella, check Goose's and 5 alpha's log, they are the most recent and have been getting good results and still getting results even after stopping. I agree it is not technically an overnight cure for most people but it have been improving people over baseline (including me) after quitting which pretty much nothing has done so far besides fasting and maybe some herb cycling over a very long period.

I can only speak for myself, but only reason I'm trying licorice is because I have been trying to get Ella to give that a round now, and in the meantime was going to try licorice root since it is pretty simple, just by taking it on the weekends. I honestly don't know that many people who have tried licorice anyways because it is so estrogenic and would be the last thing a PFS person would want to try since everyone is obsessed with the raise DHT theory by increasing 5AR etc.

Everything we are talking about, works out to be the same in the end, all reactivating DHT again.

Regarding licorice root.

Anything that blocks progesterone makes aldosterone receptors less sensitive. Also it looks like inositol formation is increased with aldosterone. So taking inositol can decrease aldosterone receptors. Also licorice root acts as aldosterone. and upon stopping decreases aldosterone receptors.

Estrogen raises sodium in the cell. So does aldosterone. So if sodium is high already from too sensitive aldosterone. estrogen will be left insensitive and thus DHT will be downregulated.

 

[Aleksandr]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2692" time="1508976035" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2622" time="1508910720" user_id="66"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2621" time="1508909245" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<br/>
<br/>
Lol..are you doing the weekend only licorice root routine?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Yep. I did a teaspoon of licorice root powder in tea 3x sunday and monday, now is my second day off it.<br/>
<br/>
My dry eyes seem to be completely fixed already, in fact they almost feel too full of blood. Before i used to press at them a lot when they were dry, but maybe i was just trying to get more bloodflow into my eye balls.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Have you tried the licorice root yet tubzy? Id recommend lower doses to start with for sure. Next time i do it ill probably just do 1/4th teaspoon 3x a day for 2 days, then 5 days off. <br/>
<br/>
1/4th the dose lol
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

I got the 4:1 extract from bulk supplements on Sunday, I tried one dose then I felt wired and kind of weird. I only did one dose since it started it towards the end of Sunday. My plan is to fully start it this weekend
<e>

</e></QUOTE>
Is the extract literally just 4x more powerful, or have they taken some stuff out? Can you link the product? Thanks</r>

 

[Aleksandr]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="Rid" post_id="2700" time="1508980959" user_id="1369"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2692" time="1508976035" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2622" time="1508910720" user_id="66"><s>

</s>
<br/>
<br/>
Yep. I did a teaspoon of licorice root powder in tea 3x sunday and monday, now is my second day off it.<br/>
<br/>
My dry eyes seem to be completely fixed already, in fact they almost feel too full of blood. Before i used to press at them a lot when they were dry, but maybe i was just trying to get more bloodflow into my eye balls.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Have you tried the licorice root yet tubzy? Id recommend lower doses to start with for sure. Next time i do it ill probably just do 1/4th teaspoon 3x a day for 2 days, then 5 days off. <br/>
<br/>
1/4th the dose lol
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

I got the 4:1 extract from bulk supplements on Sunday, I tried one dose then I felt wired and kind of weird. I only did one dose since it started it towards the end of Sunday. My plan is to fully start it this weekend
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

hey guys, wanted to chime in about my use with licorice root. I've been using lic root extract (the same 4:1 powder) for over 3 months now. I've been using it intermittently after hearing of multiple recoveries from PSSD/PFS using it. <br/>
<br/>
I notice that when I over-use it in succession at 1/4 teaspoon I will start to feel pretty shitty, and start to crash, I think there's a delicate balance of using it to up baseline. for me, if I use too much or am out of balance due to lack of sleep/diet/stress/whatever, then my body will suffer and crash quickly. but if I am in good health than I can increase my baseline ever so slightly with the right moderation. Edit: wanted to note that one person who recovered from PSSD rec'd absolutely no more than 475mg a day for as long as needed (little less than 1/4th tsp for at least 6 months)<br/>
<br/>
The theory we were thinking earlier on swolesource where we had a similar thread was that it's a mild DHT inhibitor, and after understanding that many in our situation have recovered using other DHT inhibitors, we logically assumed that it's mild enough not to crash us, but to give us an increase in our baseline, and I can say that it has helped me; but it has also very much brought me down before. so be careful. I would not recommend using if youre not in a good routine and if it makes you start to crash you've obviously used too much. <br/>
<br/>
with that being said, I think we're on to something with the theories here. i'm glad yall are all so willing to guinea pig this, but be careful haha, we're definitely playing with fire, but it very well could pay off, but as with everything, there will be those who benefit, and those who suffer from this.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Thanks for sharing your experience. Is the 475mg a day using the 4:1 powder? So if using a normal powder, you'd just use 1 full teaspoon? <br/>
<br/>
This reminds me of fasting, actually. You 'intermittent fast', and you do a small fast every day. Or you do a bigger fast, where you go a few days without eating. <br/>
<br/>
Using the 1 a day licorice root idea its more like an intermittent fast, where you have a smaller 'snap back' in the afternoon. <br/>
Using the 2 day 3x licorice root doses, its more like a few days, then you have a 5 day 'snap back'. <br/>
<br/>
Btw are you champstar from swolesource?</r>

 

[Aleksandr]

Isn’t the whole theory that Licorice Root allows estrogen to rise so dht will rise as well in response?

@TubZy @IHateFin

I feel like all this gbold talk gave us clear direction but nothing has quite worked as expected and now we’re just experimenting with everything that’s been tried before.

Is the Licorice Root cycling the difference here?

I think a lot of people are just having a stab in the dark.

I'm trying licorice root specifically because i had high cell sodium as shown in my hair test (supposed to mean overactive adrenals, too much aldosterone not enough cortisol) - and licorice root is supposed to directly help this (lower sodium on snapback / make aldosterone less sensitive, and increase potassium / progesterone). Gbolduev talked about it, then I did some research on it and it seems legit.

Now dosing the licorice root... well, gbolduev didn't say anything about that. I've done my dosing plan based on what i read on swolesource of another guy who used it to recover.



I really don't know how its effecting me though lol. I've had the flu for the past 2 weeks so my health is all over the place at the moment.

 

[Orion]

Just wanted to add that with all these protocols, gbolduev said he cured himself by using clomid protocol and long fasting(40-50 days).

 

[bruschi11]

Just wanted to add that with all these protocols, gbolduev said he cured himself by using clomid protocol and long fasting(40-50 days).

I think the fast part is the best and most important thing we can do. I have RU and I’m excited for it in mid to late November, but I’m far more excited to see where this fast brings me. Day 3 of 21 right now for me.

I think we are in the right direction with these anti-progestins, but near perfect diet with fasting, mineral balance, possibly liver flushes are all essential to recovery.

 

[TubZy]

Another method I was thinking was taking RU or Ella with a herb that boosts endogenous DHT but doesn't necessarily lower estrogen significantly. This would speed up the process greatly because if progesterone is lowered, taking a herb that boosts the production of your own DHT should restore the snap back even quicker as long as the herb doesn't tank your estrogen. I was thinking tongkat but it may be too strong due to its AI properties probably. I was thinking something like butea or cistanche.

Any exogenous DHT source will make matters worse though so I would stay away from that, stuff like proviron etc. as the results wouldn't stick because you would be suppressing your natural DHT.

 

[wuf]

Another method I was thinking was taking RU or Ella with a herb that boosts endogenous DHT but doesn't necessarily lower estrogen significantly. This would speed up the process greatly because if progesterone is lowered, taking a herb that boosts the production of your own DHT should restore the snap back even quicker as long as the herb doesn't tank your estrogen. I was thinking tongkat but it may be too strong due to its AI properties probably. I was thinking something like butea or cistanche.

Any exogenous DHT source will make matters worse though so I would stay away from that, stuff like proviron etc. as the results wouldn't stick because you would be suppressing your natural DHT.

The small times I used to eat sorghum bread (selfmade prepared in the kitchen) I was having that DHT boost you are looking for, so I would suggest you Sorghum.. I was definitly feeling it kicking in as soon as I ate it.. just my 2 cents

 

[TubZy]

Another method I was thinking was taking RU or Ella with a herb that boosts endogenous DHT but doesn't necessarily lower estrogen significantly. This would speed up the process greatly because if progesterone is lowered, taking a herb that boosts the production of your own DHT should restore the snap back even quicker as long as the herb doesn't tank your estrogen. I was thinking tongkat but it may be too strong due to its AI properties probably. I was thinking something like butea or cistanche.

Any exogenous DHT source will make matters worse though so I would stay away from that, stuff like proviron etc. as the results wouldn't stick because you would be suppressing your natural DHT.

The small times I used to eat sorghum bread (selfmade prepared in the kitchen) I was having that DHT boost you are looking for, so I would suggest you Sorghum.. I was definitly feeling it kicking in as soon as I ate it.. just my 2 cents

Yeah that could actually be an option too although not sure how strong it is. You just need to make sure you take it while on RU/ella and also right after coming off when progesterone is low otherwise it probably won't work or make you feel worse.

I was also thinking pine pollen too but that could be dicey.

 

[wuf]

Another method I was thinking was taking RU or Ella with a herb that boosts endogenous DHT but doesn't necessarily lower estrogen significantly. This would speed up the process greatly because if progesterone is lowered, taking a herb that boosts the production of your own DHT should restore the snap back even quicker as long as the herb doesn't tank your estrogen. I was thinking tongkat but it may be too strong due to its AI properties probably. I was thinking something like butea or cistanche.

Any exogenous DHT source will make matters worse though so I would stay away from that, stuff like proviron etc. as the results wouldn't stick because you would be suppressing your natural DHT.

The small times I used to eat sorghum bread (selfmade prepared in the kitchen) I was having that DHT boost you are looking for, so I would suggest you Sorghum.. I was definitly feeling it kicking in as soon as I ate it.. just my 2 cents

Yeah that could actually be an option too although not sure how strong it is. You just need to make sure you take it while on RU/ella and also right after coming off when progesterone is low otherwise it probably won't work or make you feel worse.

I was also thinking pine pollen too but that could be dicey.

I can confirm you that in my personal case it worked "strong" and I really felt it all the times I ate it and didn't make me feel worse...
I would suggest you to make a try before to make the real "trial" combining it after RU/ELLA... Speaking about its potency, I think it can be compared to an herb.. Give it a try as a "pre-trial" I do not think it can hurt you since you already tested R Andro (which is DHT) and didn't hurt you.

 

[namaste]

Just wanted to add that with all these protocols, gbolduev said he cured himself by using clomid protocol and long fasting(40-50 days).

I think the fast part is the best and most important thing we can do. I have RU and I’m excited for it in mid to late November, but I’m far more excited to see where this fast brings me. Day 3 of 21 right now for me.

I think we are in the right direction with these anti-progestins, but near perfect diet with fasting, mineral balance, possibly liver flushes are all essential to recovery.

+1 very well said.

I allowed myself to get a little too excited about the anti-progestin angle. As Tubzy said it is one of the most promising things we've seen in years but I think it will end up being one tool in a much larger toolbox, if you will.

Really looking forward to hearing how you feel after 21 days, bruschi. I plan to start my fast after Thanksgiving.

 

[BeLikeWater]

Do you want endogenous DHT? do you want that bro??? Increase your test, weights, cholesterol, no fap at least a week.

Make dangerous things, start a fight.

DHT? Buy Sardinas ahumadas o cabaya ahumada, sorry its in spanish. Take Butea SuperBa and Sorghum.

Take mini BCAA doses before sleep.

Prolactine I guess it goes high on RU because to much estrogen in the hood.

 

[bruschi11]

Just wanted to add that with all these protocols, gbolduev said he cured himself by using clomid protocol and long fasting(40-50 days).

I think the fast part is the best and most important thing we can do. I have RU and I’m excited for it in mid to late November, but I’m far more excited to see where this fast brings me. Day 3 of 21 right now for me.

I think we are in the right direction with these anti-progestins, but near perfect diet with fasting, mineral balance, possibly liver flushes are all essential to recovery.

+1 very well said.

I allowed myself to get a little too excited about the anti-progestin angle. As Tubzy said it is one of the most promising things we've seen in years but I think it will end up being one tool in a much larger toolbox, if you will.

Really looking forward to hearing how you feel after 21 days, bruschi. I plan to start my fast after Thanksgiving.

Thanks man. I'm excited to see where it leaves me. I think the probiotic enemas I'm doing every night are a great part of this fast too. Just makes sense- put the good gut bacteria in there while your body is cleaning itself of the bad stuff. [mention]gbolduev[/mention] loves these.

I feel pretty clear headed today on day 3 of this. I think day 2 will end up being the worst of it and I should be free sailing from here. Yesterday was tough- I didn't want to move.

No problem working at all right now. I'm hungry sure as hell but I'm fine with it. One thing I'm glad about this time rather than last time is the diet I have set up for after this fast. I can't waitttt for sweet potatoes, rice, oatmeal, fish, and juices!

 

[jacknap]

Isn’t the whole theory that Licorice Root allows estrogen to rise so dht will rise as well in response?

@TubZy @IHateFin

I feel like all this gbold talk gave us clear direction but nothing has quite worked as expected and now we’re just experimenting with everything that’s been tried before.

Is the Licorice Root cycling the difference here?

What hasn't worked as expected, there are multiple logs on going now and some that have just finished with RU and Ella, check Goose's and 5 alpha's log, they are the most recent and have been getting good results and still getting results even after stopping. I agree it is not technically an overnight cure for most people but it have been improving people over baseline (including me) after quitting which pretty much nothing has done so far besides fasting and maybe some herb cycling over a very long period.

I can only speak for myself, but only reason I'm trying licorice is because I have been trying to get Ella to give that a round now, and in the meantime was going to try licorice root since it is pretty simple, just by taking it on the weekends. I honestly don't know that many people who have tried licorice anyways because it is so estrogenic and would be the last thing a PFS person would want to try since everyone is obsessed with the raise DHT theory by increasing 5AR etc.

Everything we are talking about, works out to be the same in the end, all reactivating DHT again.

Regarding licorice root.

Anything that blocks progesterone makes aldosterone receptors less sensitive. Also it looks like inositol formation is increased with aldosterone. So taking inositol can decrease aldosterone receptors. Also licorice root acts as aldosterone. and upon stopping decreases aldosterone receptors.

Estrogen raises sodium in the cell. So does aldosterone. So if sodium is high already from too sensitive aldosterone. estrogen will be left insensitive and thus DHT will be downregulated.

i tried licorice and felt nothing but i only used it in a tincture with other adaptagens that also had schizsndra, astragalus and one other thing. 5ML. I did it once a week at once point for 2-3 weeks and I did it for a week and one other point.

 

[TubZy]

Isn’t the whole theory that Licorice Root allows estrogen to rise so dht will rise as well in response?

@TubZy @IHateFin

I feel like all this gbold talk gave us clear direction but nothing has quite worked as expected and now we’re just experimenting with everything that’s been tried before.

Is the Licorice Root cycling the difference here?

What hasn't worked as expected, there are multiple logs on going now and some that have just finished with RU and Ella, check Goose's and 5 alpha's log, they are the most recent and have been getting good results and still getting results even after stopping. I agree it is not technically an overnight cure for most people but it have been improving people over baseline (including me) after quitting which pretty much nothing has done so far besides fasting and maybe some herb cycling over a very long period.

I can only speak for myself, but only reason I'm trying licorice is because I have been trying to get Ella to give that a round now, and in the meantime was going to try licorice root since it is pretty simple, just by taking it on the weekends. I honestly don't know that many people who have tried licorice anyways because it is so estrogenic and would be the last thing a PFS person would want to try since everyone is obsessed with the raise DHT theory by increasing 5AR etc.

Everything we are talking about, works out to be the same in the end, all reactivating DHT again.

Regarding licorice root.

Anything that blocks progesterone makes aldosterone receptors less sensitive. Also it looks like inositol formation is increased with aldosterone. So taking inositol can decrease aldosterone receptors. Also licorice root acts as aldosterone. and upon stopping decreases aldosterone receptors.

Estrogen raises sodium in the cell. So does aldosterone. So if sodium is high already from too sensitive aldosterone. estrogen will be left insensitive and thus DHT will be downregulated.

i tried licorice and felt nothing but i only used it in a tincture with other adaptagens that also had schizsndra, astragalus and one other thing. 5ML. I did it once a week at once point for 2-3 weeks and I did it for a week and one other point.

Aren't you also taking a boat load of supplements on top of that? If you are going to trial it literally stop everything except the licorice (no blended formulas) and replicate the exact protocol, otherwise it is pretty much irrelevant at this point.

Also, usually blends are weak, need to make sure it is 4:1 extract as well and get the pure powder.

 

[jacknap]

What hasn't worked as expected, there are multiple logs on going now and some that have just finished with RU and Ella, check Goose's and 5 alpha's log, they are the most recent and have been getting good results and still getting results even after stopping. I agree it is not technically an overnight cure for most people but it have been improving people over baseline (including me) after quitting which pretty much nothing has done so far besides fasting and maybe some herb cycling over a very long period.

I can only speak for myself, but only reason I'm trying licorice is because I have been trying to get Ella to give that a round now, and in the meantime was going to try licorice root since it is pretty simple, just by taking it on the weekends. I honestly don't know that many people who have tried licorice anyways because it is so estrogenic and would be the last thing a PFS person would want to try since everyone is obsessed with the raise DHT theory by increasing 5AR etc.

Everything we are talking about, works out to be the same in the end, all reactivating DHT again.

Regarding licorice root.

i tried licorice and felt nothing but i only used it in a tincture with other adaptagens that also had schizsndra, astragalus and one other thing. 5ML. I did it once a week at once point for 2-3 weeks and I did it for a week and one other point.

Aren't you also taking a boat load of supplements on top of that? If you are going to trial it literally stop everything except the licorice (no blended formulas) and replicate the exact protocol, otherwise it is pretty much irrelevant at this point.

Also, usually blends are weak, need to make sure it is 4:1 extract as well and get the pure powder.

champster was on cdnuts protocol though when he was using it so he was using the same stuff I was using. But yeah worth a shot trying it isolated as well.


I got me some phosphatidylcholine which i've read is good for dht from natural factors but it says it's derived from soy lecithin. Soy is highly estrogenic but would those estrogenic properties transfer to the isolated phosphatidylcholine supplement?

i might eventually try licorice isolated as well but i'm seeing good progress just doing cdnuts protocol to try something else yet. please keep us posted