Brainstorming & Ideas (PFS - Gbol)

[Scenes]

It’s amazing for sure but it has also only been a week. Let’s see what happens when I come off. Could be a month away yet.

 

[IHateFin]

I’ve joked with the dude about how little we all know yet how much we just chow down every supp he mentions...I think he has to be careful because the moment he lays out a protocol, we’ll have all of us buying every supp on the list and smashing it the second we get home. I’m the same...I would probably be first...actually nah @IHateFin would be haha!

LOL! the temptation is real! but ive been keeping super strict haha you all would be proud. :mrgreen:

 

[Snow1]

Yeah just to clarify I am doing very well. I’d almost say cured, like 90% if I had to put a number on it.

But it’s still early days...will it stick once I stop supplementing...can’t say yet.

Awesome scenes! Great news for you buddy.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

I bought raw pine pollen, and don't know how to conume it. Does anyone know good way of consuming this stuff efficently ?

 

[Aleksandr]

I’ve joked with the dude about how little we all know yet how much we just chow down every supp he mentions...I think he has to be careful because the moment he lays out a protocol, we’ll have all of us buying every supp on the list and smashing it the second we get home. I’m the same...I would probably be first...actually nah @IHateFin would be haha!

LOL! the temptation is real! but ive been keeping super strict haha you all would be proud. :mrgreen:

Nice man!!

 

[joekool]

I bought raw pine pollen, and don't know how to conume it. Does anyone know good way of consuming this stuff efficently ?

I put 3 tablespoons in the magic bullet blender with some crystal lite (fruit punch) and fill to the line with water... probably like a poland spring bottle worth... couple cups I guess...

then blend and drink over the next hour before bed... even plain though, it's flavor is palatable

 

[tanedout]

Mine works out to be approx:
2-4mg copper
100mg Potassium (but I’m getting plenty more through food I guess, tomato juice mainly)
150mg magnesium
600mg aspirin to speed things along

Which form of copper are you taking? Copper gluconate, copper Bisglycinate or copper picolinate?

 

[joekool]

My .02... I'm using Swanson Copper which is Copper Chelate 2mg ... taking 2 a day at once at noon

 

[TubZy]

It’s amazing for sure but it has also only been a week. Let’s see what happens when I come off. Could be a month away yet.

Why did you choose to use aspirin btw? Just because it is an acid?

 

[mattyb]

Why did you choose to use aspirin btw? Just because it is an acid?

I'm guessing because it stimulates respiratory centers, which causes minor hyperventilation and respiratory alkalosis, and the respiratory alkalosis will stimulate the body to lose bicarb to maintain acidity and induce a low-level metabolic acidosis (countering the persistent metabolic alkalosis of PFS). The increase in ventilation rate would also break down bicarb faster, since bicarb is broken down into CO2 + H20 at the lungs where the CO2 is released.

But I think it is a bit contradictory. Both ACE and aspirin cause metabolic acidosis but their mechanisms are very different. I think in the long run Aspirin poses more problems since it's primary mechanism still induces respiratory alkalosis and the metabolic acidosis comes secondary. ACE is different in that it's primary mechanism induces metabolic acidosis, the respiratory alkalosis that ensues is secondary.

 

[MNK99]

Would this be fine?:
In addition to Swanson's Copper ?

Good State Liquid Ionic Potassium 732 (99 mg of ionic potassium per serving - 236.
https://tinyurl.com/y8jsmgoz

And maybe 2 Pounds / 907g, Magnesium Chloride, Hexahydrate, Pharmaceutical Grade, Crystal Powder, Pure Ph. Eur., BP, USP, 100% - Muscle Pain Relief
https://tinyurl.com/y9c5bn65
-Otherwise I can try getting Innovite Magnesium Powder or Magnesium Glycinate.
I'm trying to avoid pill binders.

EDIT: Tubzy got back to me on this, saying
" potassium gluconate or citrate are fine
Any mag form besides oxide is usually fine"

Thx Tubzy!

 

[HerrFisch]

99mg potassium supplements are rip off. Just buy potassium citrate or potassium chloride.
1g of potassium citrate equals around 360mg potassium.
500g of potassium cit is around 10 bucks.

 

[mattyb]

So [mention]gbolduev[/mention] has talked about contraction alkalosis being a major cause of PFS.

Recently I read this paper talking about how contraction alkalosis isn't actually a thing, and that the real cause of contraction alkalosis is always chloride depletion.

It Is Chloride Depletion Alkalosis, Not Contraction Alkalosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269186/

I am wondering - how many people with PFS/PSSD have actually tried just repleting chloride?

Has anyone with PSF/PSSD had electrolytes measured and showed hypochloremia (low blood chloride)?

I think this is also why so many people are having success with low dose potassium (e.g. 99mg). All low dose potassium supps are typically potassium chloride, not citrate or anything else. In one of the papers referenced in the review I linked potassium and sodium repletion didn't correct alkalosis if given in forms other than NaCl and KCl. 99mg of potassium is absolutely nothing. It's the chloride that's making a difference.

 

[Latapy]

For those who don't understand any, you are not alone. Unlike other people who talk about biochemistry like they were talking about the different colors of foods, I don't understand any about what they are saying. I simply can't follow their ideas, because they are talking Chinese to me. It's very hard and complex. They can say it is very well explained, but for me it still isn't. Of course, people who understand what they are talking/doing, even if it is only just a little, it all seems very easy. But, in my case, I will usually end up with more questions than answers.

Sorry for the off-topic, I must admit I am not strictly following what people are doing here. Even on RPForum I had tons of difficulties to understand what people were saying there.
I am just a regular everyday normal guy. I never got into biochemistry before in my life. And I am honest with myself, this is, I recognize I am completely ignorant in this area. People don't realize how hard is for us who are clueless to follow topics like these, especially when they use vague terms or specific supplements and dosages without really explaining how and when to take them. And this happens everywhere.

And I know the first step to failure is trying a new thing without feeling confident about on what are you doing.
You will search and will come with more questions than answers, once again. You feel more insecure, and this vicious cycle never ends. And, if you are like me, who have issues to concentrate, brain fog and fatigue and poor memory recall, it all becomes even more difficult.

 

[Jaxx]

So @gbolduev has talked about contraction alkalosis being a major cause of PFS.

Recently I read this paper talking about how contraction alkalosis isn't actually a thing, and that the real cause of contraction alkalosis is always chloride depletion.

It Is Chloride Depletion Alkalosis, Not Contraction Alkalosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269186/

I am wondering - how many people with PFS/PSSD have actually tried just repleting chloride?

Has anyone with PSF/PSSD had electrolytes measured and showed hypochloremia (low blood chloride)?

I think this is also why so many people are having success with low dose potassium (e.g. 99mg). All low dose potassium supps are typically potassium chloride, not citrate or anything else. In one of the papers referenced in the review I linked potassium and sodium repletion didn't correct alkalosis if given in forms other than NaCl and KCl. 99mg of potassium is absolutely nothing. It's the chloride that's making a difference.

Looking at what has helped some people with PSSD, like saint johns wort, or low dose ssri, i understand the hormone/progesterone connection, but low chloride seems unrelated to this. Or would this be an indirect effect somehow?

 

[Helen]

So @gbolduev has talked about contraction alkalosis being a major cause of PFS.

Recently I read this paper talking about how contraction alkalosis isn't actually a thing, and that the real cause of contraction alkalosis is always chloride depletion.

It Is Chloride Depletion Alkalosis, Not Contraction Alkalosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269186/

I am wondering - how many people with PFS/PSSD have actually tried just repleting chloride?

Has anyone with PSF/PSSD had electrolytes measured and showed hypochloremia (low blood chloride)?

I think this is also why so many people are having success with low dose potassium (e.g. 99mg). All low dose potassium supps are typically potassium chloride, not citrate or anything else. In one of the papers referenced in the review I linked potassium and sodium repletion didn't correct alkalosis if given in forms other than NaCl and KCl. 99mg of potassium is absolutely nothing. It's the chloride that's making a difference.

I was taking about volume expansion alkalosis with sodium retention, since cortisol is raised in PFS. And people dont have success with potassium chloride, potassium chloride taken alone will vasoconstrict people in PFS. It is the exact protocol that has to be taken. magnesium copper potassium together. etc
Potassium chloride is not good alone, it will increase more volume

PFS people have chloride resistant alkalosis with potassium and magnesium depletion.

Contraction alkalosis is the opposite and can happen during vomitting lets say , either chloride deficiency or sodium deficiency can cause it. Fixed by taking in salt solution, NACL.

Also arterial blood gases as they are used by most are not correct, I even think Stewarts approach is too easy . You cant tell anything by the artery.

Very many variables need to be looked at. this is why I used 3 compartments for my tests. blood , urine , hair.

Good example would be venous blood.
Let's say CO2 can be very high in venous blood, just because low heart output. or thick blood. this causes blood travel longer, THUS higher CO2.

The best test is to test minerals in artery and vein. This should be the regular test. The comparison of artery and vein minerals SHOWs A LOT

 

[Jaxx]

So @gbolduev has talked about contraction alkalosis being a major cause of PFS.

Recently I read this paper talking about how contraction alkalosis isn't actually a thing, and that the real cause of contraction alkalosis is always chloride depletion.

It Is Chloride Depletion Alkalosis, Not Contraction Alkalosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269186/

I am wondering - how many people with PFS/PSSD have actually tried just repleting chloride?

Has anyone with PSF/PSSD had electrolytes measured and showed hypochloremia (low blood chloride)?

I think this is also why so many people are having success with low dose potassium (e.g. 99mg). All low dose potassium supps are typically potassium chloride, not citrate or anything else. In one of the papers referenced in the review I linked potassium and sodium repletion didn't correct alkalosis if given in forms other than NaCl and KCl. 99mg of potassium is absolutely nothing. It's the chloride that's making a difference.

I was taking about volume expansion alkalosis with sodium retention, since cortisol is raised in PFS. And people dont have success with potassium chloride, potassium chloride taken alone will vasoconstrict people in PFS. It is the exact protocol that has to be taken. magnesium copper potassium together. etc
Potassium chloride is not good alone, it will increase more volume

Contraction alkalosis is the opposite and can happen during vomitting lets say , either chloride deficiency or sodium deficiency can cause it. Fixed by taking in salt solution, NACL.

Also arterial blood gases as they are used by most are not correct, I even think Stewarts approach is too easy . You cant tell anything by the artery.

Very many variables need to be looked at. this is why I used 3 compartments for my tests. blood , urine , hair.

Good example would be venous blood.
Let's say CO2 can be very high in venous blood, just because low heart output. or thick blood. this causes blood travel longer, THUS higher CO2.

The best test is to test minerals in artery and vein. This should be the regular test. The comparison of artery and vein minerals SHOW A LOT

Some people are also already talking about adding Zinc to this stack, i guess because Zinc was pretty critical in the clomid protocol you posted on RP forum. How does Zinc come in to play here and should it be added at all?

 

[Helen]

So @gbolduev has talked about contraction alkalosis being a major cause of PFS.

Recently I read this paper talking about how contraction alkalosis isn't actually a thing, and that the real cause of contraction alkalosis is always chloride depletion.

It Is Chloride Depletion Alkalosis, Not Contraction Alkalosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269186/

I am wondering - how many people with PFS/PSSD have actually tried just repleting chloride?

Has anyone with PSF/PSSD had electrolytes measured and showed hypochloremia (low blood chloride)?

I think this is also why so many people are having success with low dose potassium (e.g. 99mg). All low dose potassium supps are typically potassium chloride, not citrate or anything else. In one of the papers referenced in the review I linked potassium and sodium repletion didn't correct alkalosis if given in forms other than NaCl and KCl. 99mg of potassium is absolutely nothing. It's the chloride that's making a difference.

I was taking about volume expansion alkalosis with sodium retention, since cortisol is raised in PFS. And people dont have success with potassium chloride, potassium chloride taken alone will vasoconstrict people in PFS. It is the exact protocol that has to be taken. magnesium copper potassium together. etc
Potassium chloride is not good alone, it will increase more volume

Contraction alkalosis is the opposite and can happen during vomitting lets say , either chloride deficiency or sodium deficiency can cause it. Fixed by taking in salt solution, NACL.

Also arterial blood gases as they are used by most are not correct, I even think Stewarts approach is too easy . You cant tell anything by the artery.

Very many variables need to be looked at. this is why I used 3 compartments for my tests. blood , urine , hair.

Good example would be venous blood.
Let's say CO2 can be very high in venous blood, just because low heart output. or thick blood. this causes blood travel longer, THUS higher CO2.

The best test is to test minerals in artery and vein. This should be the regular test. The comparison of artery and vein minerals SHOW A LOT

Some people are also already talking about adding Zinc to this stack, i guess because Zinc was pretty critical in the clomid protocol you posted on RP forum. How does Zinc come in to play here and should it be added at all?

I posted that I am taking zinc from the beginning. Just look at what JoeKool is taking. I am taking similar protocol. I outlined what I am taking already, so did Joe, and Scenes.

You can run without zinc at the start, but there is a chance you will have a huge hair fall.

I will outline my protocol again, after I test it this week . I want to make sure I am all balanced. from what I am taking now.

 

[barbaar]

So @gbolduev has talked about contraction alkalosis being a major cause of PFS.

Recently I read this paper talking about how contraction alkalosis isn't actually a thing, and that the real cause of contraction alkalosis is always chloride depletion.

It Is Chloride Depletion Alkalosis, Not Contraction Alkalosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269186/

I am wondering - how many people with PFS/PSSD have actually tried just repleting chloride?

Has anyone with PSF/PSSD had electrolytes measured and showed hypochloremia (low blood chloride)?

I think this is also why so many people are having success with low dose potassium (e.g. 99mg). All low dose potassium supps are typically potassium chloride, not citrate or anything else. In one of the papers referenced in the review I linked potassium and sodium repletion didn't correct alkalosis if given in forms other than NaCl and KCl. 99mg of potassium is absolutely nothing. It's the chloride that's making a difference.

If that was the case wouldn't it get eventually get replenished by the NaCl/KCl content of ones normal food intake? Or is there a certain treshold we need to pass for our bodies not to lose it faster than we replenish it?

 

[Helen]

So @gbolduev has talked about contraction alkalosis being a major cause of PFS.

Recently I read this paper talking about how contraction alkalosis isn't actually a thing, and that the real cause of contraction alkalosis is always chloride depletion.

It Is Chloride Depletion Alkalosis, Not Contraction Alkalosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269186/

I am wondering - how many people with PFS/PSSD have actually tried just repleting chloride?

Has anyone with PSF/PSSD had electrolytes measured and showed hypochloremia (low blood chloride)?

I think this is also why so many people are having success with low dose potassium (e.g. 99mg). All low dose potassium supps are typically potassium chloride, not citrate or anything else. In one of the papers referenced in the review I linked potassium and sodium repletion didn't correct alkalosis if given in forms other than NaCl and KCl. 99mg of potassium is absolutely nothing. It's the chloride that's making a difference.

If that was the case wouldn't it get eventually get replenished by the NaCl/KCl content of ones normal food intake? Or is there a certain treshold we need to pass for our bodies not to lose it faster than we replenish it?

It is magnesium that makes the difference . with copper taken together. If you take it separately . Both will make you worse. potassium is not as important. And potassium alone is NOT good, and makes you worse.

You wont be able to retain potassium until you get rid of high cortisol in this case. Body is stuck here, it has high cortisol and high progesterone at the same time. It should never be this case.

In PFS this is what is happening. and you need to use minerals at the same time, to fix it. It is a mixed acid base imbalance which usually is very hard to fix using conventional methods.


Not sure why you are trying to over analyze this guys. Just follow the protocol which was outlined by Joe or wait till I post my complete protocol later


Alkalosis takes sometimes up to 10 years to get fixed naturally. It can take years from food.

this is not just alkalosis you are fixing here, you are fixing a reason why this alkalosis exist. And this reason is still ongoing.

It is not like you took corticosteroids and caused it , then quit them and now fixed alkalosis, PFS is causing this alkalosis and it is ongoing, since the body is stuck between serotonin cortisol and progesterone regulation