Creatine

[RebelWithACause]

Anyone using creatine?

I have had mixed experiences with it. When I was 20 to 23 I used creatine all the time. It gave me mental benefits. More physical and mental energy. More GABA activity it felt like and high libido. I think it did raise my DHT since my hair started shedding. I also had zits on my forehead. But overall I felt great.

Now I have used it again in PFS and I did not feel good. Seemed to make me foggy-headed and lower libido. But I also see guys in PFS feeling better when they take creatine.

Now that I am doing better I was thinking of supplementing creatine since it is hard to get 5g+ out of food. Even if you eat a lot of meat. The cooking process lowers the amount of creatine ingested - just like all the other amino acids. Getting 5g would mean eating 1KG of raw beef. I am not going to do that.

I like the extra water weight since it prevents injuries. My face holds more water on creatine and I look better with it. Also it mitigates caffeine jitteriness.

I have read mixed reviews. For some guys it kills their social anxiety and depression, makes them more confident and of course muscles look bigger. Other guys even without PFS seem to experience brainfog, nervousness, ED, etc.

A few questions:

- How can I make creatine work? Do I need to support it with certain type of foods, amino acids to not get imbalanced?
- Why do some guys get higher libido with it and others lower? Some of them even get dick problems on it
- Anything else I need to know how to properly take creatine? Or should I not take it/is it unhealthy?

 

[MNK99]

-I did in cycle 1 and 2 of randro and 4andro, it made me stronger but I can do crazy numbers of reps on nothing too. But PCT or randro, let alone choline + randro + 4andro + ---Creatine did make me hella strong compared to past yrs.
- BUT*** at the cost of several pounds (back then like 10lb) water weight. So, I quit it...
-DO I like it? Sure
-Do I want water weight? No.
-Was it good for mood and clarity a bit? Yes.
-Are there better things for a minimalistic regime (for me)? Yes.
-Choline and a stim, or just choline.... (pre workout, mood, focus, helps sexual health too, but I'd say mood, focus, workouts were priority - sexual health was a bonus I realized months later actually).

-Actually when I was taking like 12-14 things and wanted to simplify, I added some Creatine HCL to some JYM or similar Preworkout (old threads), which had Alpha-GPC (a form of choline-precursor, which had caffeine, and arginine, and other things). Add some citrulline, take whatever else I needed --> and cut things down to inhalers and a drink and maybe a coffee (3 things, just like that), also added some juice (for fast burning carbs, pre workout).

-Later, I realized it's still too much caffiene so I cut it off, and took 4-7 things separately, but it could just be enzymes and HCl now, but I take them in hopes of eradicating
the remaining PFS symptoms, and I like some of them too. - some antinflammation things as well.

-The name isn't jet, I'd have to look it up... but that literally had 50% of what I took per day (besides water and food) in one drink. ---> Yeah it's JYM (surely there's others).

-1. JYM ---> https://amzn.to/2MQ1P3V
-2. Creatine HCl ---> https://amzn.to/2MRg7kQ

 

[RebelWithACause]

-I did in cycle 1 and 2 of randro and 4andro, it made me stronger but I can do crazy numbers of reps on nothing too. But PCT or randro, let alone choline + randro + 4andro + ---Creatine did make me hella strong compared to past yrs.
- BUT*** at the cost of several pounds (back then like 10lb) water weight. So, I quit it...
-DO I like it? Sure
-Do I want water weight? No.
-Was it good for mood and clarity a bit? Yes.
-Are there better things for a minimalistic regime (for me)? Yes.
-Choline and a stim, or just choline.... (pre workout, mood, focus, helps sexual health too, but I'd say mood, focus, workouts were priority - sexual health was a bonus I realized months later actually).

-Actually when I was taking like 12-14 things and wanted to simplify, I added some Creatine HCL to some Jet or similar Preworkout (old threads), which had Alpha-GPC (a form of choline-precursor, which had caffeine, and arginine, and other things). Add some citrulline, take whatever else I needed --> and cut things down to inhalers and a drink and maybe a coffee (3 things, just like that), also added some juice (for fast burning carbs, pre workout).

-Later, I realized it's still too much caffiene so I cut it off, and took 4-7 things separately, but it could just be enzymes and HCl now, but I take them in hopes of eradicating
the remaining PFS symptoms, and I like some of them too. - some antinflammation things as well.

-The name isn't jet, I'd have to look it up... but that literally had 50% of what I took per day (besides water and food) in one drink.

Yea the water weight is real. Even if you load up on minerals it is not the same water weight. My face can get really bloated on it especially if I drink beer with it. Which I used to do. Sometimes I would see photo of me in a club and my face would look like a balloon. I carried a bit of extra BF% though.

I am still interested in it. Since especially mentally I felt great on it. The extra energy would sometimes keep me awake at night. Potassium + magnesium has similar effect in mental energy.

 

[MNK99]

-Well I got stomach water weight mostly, but after abdominoplasty and gaining like 30lb after quitting fin, I was worried about ruining it (obviously didn't... it''s not like gaining 100lb and staying there for 10 yrs, even that doesn't ruin it for some). But I fear fat and or water gain, but lots was PFS too.
-Look leaner now, often 0 lb water weight gain, but either training really hard or PCt (or randro/4andro even just 5 days like last mini cycle) add a lot to baseline hunger.
-And yeah maybe need to gain 1-3lb fat to gain some muscle,
-But* I was never really into "Bulking" and "Cutting", rather just small incremental LBM gains, minimizing potential fat gain. And the opposite losing fat, minimizing LBM loss.
-I actually thought Creatine was bs and didn't use it in teens because maybe it hurt hair acc to others, I don't think it does all that much at all, for me. It does stimulate DHT.
-If I find what Area said... or Joekool said, I'll add that to this post. -I lost like 100lb (70 but more with recomps and muscle gain then cutting) since a kid, so any fat gain kind of drives me a bit crazy, even if no one can notice.
-I did find this though:

Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players. - PubMed - NCBI

-Also yeah, I think I've read about GABA effects too, and that and choline (Cognitex, Powder from Nootropicsdepot, or Citocoline, or the Alpha-GPC inside of JYM),
-definitely helped mood and confidence, and social anxiety but it's less now anyways. And I think for me... all that stuff plus R-Andro... just becomes addictive, past
-a certain point. Initially needed it... but now am motivated like normal to go to the gym and maybe I ought to be 3-4 d a week rather than 7d a week anyways.
-Tiny more gains quicker at cost of increased risk of injury, isn't really worth it. But I do still go a lot... I think it helped a lot, quickening PFS recov process, but
-it's not like I'll be 5-9% bodyfat now... 10-13 or so is fine, depending on genetics and what a person wants.
-17 percent, I had a ton of attraction from girls (a dumb shy kid at times, but still). So... what's the difference in 5-10% better lifts, you know what I'm saying?

 

[RebelWithACause]

-Well I got stomach water weight mostly, but after abdominoplasty and gaining like 30lb after quitting fin, I was worried about ruining it (obviously didn't... it''s not like gaining 100lb and staying there for 10 yrs, even that doesn't ruin it for some). But I fear fat and or water gain, but lots was PFS too.
-Look leaner now, often 0 lb water weight gain, but either training really hard or PCt (or randro/4andro even just 5 days like last mini cycle) add a lot to baseline hunger.
-And yeah maybe need to gain 1-3lb fat to gain some muscle,
-But* I was never really into "Bulking" and "Cutting", rather just small incremental LBM gains, minimizing potential fat gain. And the opposite losing fat, minimizing LBM loss.
-I actually thought Creatine was bs and didn't use it in teens because maybe it hurt hair acc to others, I don't think it does all that much at all. It does stimulate DHT.
-If I find what Area said... or Joekool said, I'll add that to this post. -I lost like 100lb (70 but more with recomps and muscle gain then cutting) since a kid, so any fat gain kind of drives me a bit crazy, even if no one can notice.
-I did find this though:

Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players. - PubMed - NCBI

I have heard a lot of anecdotal stories of people experiencing the effects I did: hair shedding, higher confidence, low social anxiety, lower depression, etc. This all seems higher DHT to me. But also guys that had opposite and felt shitty while using it. That is why I am interested how I can get it to work. It is a great tool if you workout HEAVY.

I read a study that showed that people that train using creatine had higher testosterone and DHT baseline and lower cortisol than control group not using creatine. It seems to help in recovery. For average guy it will not do anything I think.

 

[MNK99]

-Makes sense, yeah all the stuff I listed and even R-Andro/4-andro that I and many others took...
-Probably are almost useless without heavy workouts (strength training, or what we commonly did - weight lifting).
-On their own? Lots of these, incl. creating would probably be a waste of time and money. Maybe not entirely but basically.
-It's like drinking coffee to barely get out of bed, rather than studying/working long hours... Or drinking alcohol to feel alive, rather than to meet or hangout with someone.
-I don't know if that makes sense, but basically it's just a tool.. an incremental edge.
-AND yes, confidence, lowered anxiety, more outgoing etc. fits increased DHT production / utilization.
-Like any drug or substance or supplement...by itself it's useless, without all the work. Same with talent, intelligence, charisma... anything really (kind of).

 

[MNK99]

-Although it may help prevent injury and also decrease necessary recovery time. --Some of these things I took did do that.
-Wrists hurt less while using it.

@RebelWithACause said: "But also guys that had opposite and felt shitty while using it." --> Oh yeah, I forgot to say: the non HCl versions destroyed my stomach as a teen.
I never really used them except once or twice till recently, and was pleasantly surprised that I could tolerate it at only 30-40% health (still looked pretty fit, but inside was a different story, still had bad digestion, was refeeding, etc.)

 

[SwaZ]

Would highly recomend it. Gym gains go through the roof with it.

Also should help with methylation, not by forcing it but by rather freeing up and sparing its components(your body's creatine manufacturing uses 60-70% of daily SAMe production)
Make sure you get sodium with it.For me, if i take it without sodium i get bloated eye bags and bloated cheeks.With sodium--> straight into muscle lol.

 

[MNK99]

Yeah that could be why part of the reason I like it now (mostly, in limited use / cycles) rather than HATED it when a bit younger.
SImplified electrolytes were ran all year... after refeed, hence: locked in gains and "snapback" as @HS likes to call it. --> i.e. Spinach (B1), NaCl, K, Mg too.

Oh yeah, definitely heard for some it does jack all... could very well be true probably is. Same with R-Andro, and anything for any condition.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Would highly recomend it. Gym gains go through the roof with it.

Also should help with methylation, not by forcing it but by rather freeing up and sparing its components(your body's creatine manufacturing uses 60-70% of daily SAMe production)
Make sure you get sodium with it.For me, if i take it without sodium i get bloated eye bags and bloated cheeks.With sodium--> straight into muscle lol.

Very interesting what you say about the sodium.

I always got bloated face on creatine but back then I did not eat a lot of salt/sodium.

I got very strong on creatine too. For some people (non-responders) they think you lie. I would say this has effects of 25% of anabolic steroids. Which is a lot for a natural lifter.

 

[hairsuit]

Always worked great for me pre PFS, but like you, tried it a couple months ago and had to stop. Tore my stomach up. Felt like crap. Something about mixing it with PFS that isn’t good. The hair shedding bit doesn’t help.....

 

[MNK99]

In crash mode, and without first, cleansing/detoxing -- probably literally anything would tear up my stomach.

 

[RebelWithACause]

OK started the creatine today. Will let you guys know how it goes.

I always notice mental effects from it. Gives me a bit sedated feeling. Lower social anxiety. Higher confidence. But also faster thinking. Especially after loading phase (saturation).

 

[SwaZ]

OK started the creatine today. Will let you guys know how it goes.

I always notice mental effects from it. Gives me a bit sedated feeling. Lower social anxiety. Higher confidence. But also faster thinking. Especially after loading phase (saturation).

Are you using monohydrate or citrate?

 

[MNK99]

-HCl seems to be a good form. No huge stomach pain for me... monohydrate would probably destroy my digestion (have not used that one in like 6-10yrs).

 

[RebelWithACause]

Are you using monohydrate or citrate?

I am using monohydrate. Doing fine on the digestion part. Took high amount today and no problems.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Update after loading creatine for a few days.

Today pumps in gym were better. Also stronger. I notice increase in energy and mood. I had similar experience when I first started using creatine. I react well to it. Makes me recover faster too. I think there is people who respond well to it (like me) and people who get nothing out of it (non-responders).

I am not even fully saturated I think (it takes 7 days at high dosage).

It has a subtle anti-depressant and anti-anxiety feeling. I do not know if it is because of the effect of creatine on the brain, increase in DHT or the lowering cortisol effect of creatine.

I also seem to be less reactive to high GI food. It seems like creatine has benefits for insulin response.

The mental benefits are great and I would recommend anyone that trains/workouts to use it.

To me it is an addition on the electrolytes.

Like I said before. In natural human diet (high in raw meat) you would get a lot of creatine. In todays diet you will get very little. Even me, who eats a lot of red meat responds well to creatine supplementation. Same goes for taurine, you will probably benefit supplementing that. I never tried that though.

Will keep you guys updated on this once in a while.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Last 2 days I have had insomnia feeling. I lay in bed but I am fully awake. I have had similar experience to this in the past with creatine. Right now it is 5:25AM and I have only slept like 3 hours. LOL

I feel ready to go to the gym.

Anyone know why this happens?

 

[MNK99]

3hrs is fucking luxurious! Oh I only found 75 diamonds in my diamond mine today....

 

[RebelWithACause]

I am going to drink more water today to see if it helps the issue.

40 male varsity athletes were interviewed and filled out a questionnaire detailing all side effects during the double blind study. Two side effects showed the greatest difference between the creatine and placebo group: sleep irregularity (creatine 47%, placebo 7%) and muscle soreness (creatine 53%, placebo 14%).

Is there any theory behind this? Why does this happen?

I take creatine in the morning by the way - not right before bed.