4000IU liquid version, Carlson brand. Danny Roddy recommended using 10× a single dose and rubbing it on the skin, and I seemed to definitely notice a difference from that, but when I went to see the doctor a couple months ago, my serum vitamin D measurement was actually lower than before I started supplementing, so I take one drop orally and sometimes 10 drops topically now. I only noticed a significant difference in how I feel when I use it topically, but it doesn't change my serum level for some odd reason. Very strange.
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Shadow
Moderator
- Messages
- 383
Very strange indeed! I know nothing about Vitamin D, I asked because a member from pssd forum, if Im not mistaken had nice reaction from an accidental huge dose. There is some genes mapping going on there, I dont have any info, but genes that affect vit d were mentioned.
JonnyCraig
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 250
Tyromix applied only on scrotum resolved the symptoms? as opposed to tyromix on tongue?
Yes, it fixed every symptom that I had. I felt even better than I did before PFS. The reason I stopped was because I became hyperthyroid and it worsened my anxiety, and I then I stopped feeling anything. Now I can't respond to any thyroid product. Danny Roddy is helping me with that, but I haven't had much luck in restoring my sensivity to it, so I'm stuck. Haidut is making me custom Tryonene in DMSO so that I can attempt to replicate it, because I'm not likely to go hyper with a T3 only product. But there's no point if I can't feel anything from it.
I'm considering trying TRT again. For the past 3 months I've only been using vitamins D and K, and I've been trying to manage the anxiety/depersonalization. I still can't work.
I went to a psychiatrist and got a prescription for mirtazapine. He was fairly reasonable and believed that my problems were caused by finasteride. We disagreed on some things, but it was a decent conversation, and he does not seem to think that I'm delusional or in danger of losing my mind. I haven't taken the mirtazapine yet, and I probably won't go back to see the psychiatrist.
I will not do ARL because I think it's potentially dangerous, and I think Wilson is a quack.
Maybe there is some value in juice fasting. I'm still considering it. I need to do more research on herbs.
It's difficult for me to think that I'll ever improve my baseline when I feel so insane mentally, but I am still alive.
I went to a psychiatrist and got a prescription for mirtazapine. He was fairly reasonable and believed that my problems were caused by finasteride. We disagreed on some things, but it was a decent conversation, and he does not seem to think that I'm delusional or in danger of losing my mind. I haven't taken the mirtazapine yet, and I probably won't go back to see the psychiatrist.
I will not do ARL because I think it's potentially dangerous, and I think Wilson is a quack.
Maybe there is some value in juice fasting. I'm still considering it. I need to do more research on herbs.
It's difficult for me to think that I'll ever improve my baseline when I feel so insane mentally, but I am still alive.
RebelWithACause
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,560
Try the testosterone + progesterone route like Helen said. This could potentially alleviate the symptoms.
I'm seriously considering it. I might try to get T3 on the testes to work one more time, but if I can't get thyroid to work, I will go for TRT again. I'm only concerned about worsening my hair situation, but I have lost so much by now that it's probably not worth putting a lot of effort into saving what's left.
Admiral
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 949
Because injecting yourself with synthetic hormones is much safer than supplementing the exact vitamines and minerals your body needs. I never use “LOL” because I am a grown ass man, but I’ll make an exception here: LOL.
Wilson is a fruitcake, though. I’ll give you that. But you’re not far off yourself thinking like that.
I'm not interested in arguing this point.
Everyone is attempting to balance safety and effectiveness. I don't doubt that the mineral supplementation is working for some people. To each their own.
Okay, I was hesitant to post this because of the criticism I might get and the fear of people telling me, "this won't work." But I have a new plan.
I'm going to work with a hormone replacement therapy clinic. They will most likely prescribe me testosterone + HCG. I will add in progesterone if testosterone helps. Maybe I can ask them for anavar if they are open minded. They have a lot of options available to them, and they claim to have successfully treated PFS people.
Some thoughts on why testosterone didn't work for me in the past (Jan 15 - March 15 of this year)
- I think I was leaking too much T out of the syringe. Every time I would inject, I would notice oil on my thigh, and the amount was probably larger than I think.
- I was not using a pharma grade product.
- I never had labs done to know how much my serum T levels were rising.
I'm not expecting this to work, but it's keeping me looking forward. I had my labs done last week. I will commit to this for at least 2.5 months. If I don't notice any androgenic or antidepressant effects, I will get labs done at the end of the 2.5 months and abort the experiment.
All of my experiences tell me that I don't have a permanent androgen insensitivity. I may just need supraphysiological doses of androgens in order for them to work. I can get erections now, but my cognitive function/brain fog/DP is still preventing me from living a normal life, and I think I would be in better shape if I had higher endogenous blood levels of androgens. I am informed by my experiences, and this makes the most sense to me as of right now.
I'm going to work with a hormone replacement therapy clinic. They will most likely prescribe me testosterone + HCG. I will add in progesterone if testosterone helps. Maybe I can ask them for anavar if they are open minded. They have a lot of options available to them, and they claim to have successfully treated PFS people.
Some thoughts on why testosterone didn't work for me in the past (Jan 15 - March 15 of this year)
- I think I was leaking too much T out of the syringe. Every time I would inject, I would notice oil on my thigh, and the amount was probably larger than I think.
- I was not using a pharma grade product.
- I never had labs done to know how much my serum T levels were rising.
I'm not expecting this to work, but it's keeping me looking forward. I had my labs done last week. I will commit to this for at least 2.5 months. If I don't notice any androgenic or antidepressant effects, I will get labs done at the end of the 2.5 months and abort the experiment.
All of my experiences tell me that I don't have a permanent androgen insensitivity. I may just need supraphysiological doses of androgens in order for them to work. I can get erections now, but my cognitive function/brain fog/DP is still preventing me from living a normal life, and I think I would be in better shape if I had higher endogenous blood levels of androgens. I am informed by my experiences, and this makes the most sense to me as of right now.
Most of the time I still think death would be better than this, but I am reminded that there are always new things to try. My dissociated feelings have been more mild recently. Hopefully they go away altogether soon. The depersonalization/perceptual change is bad enough without me having to worry every waking hour if I'm going to lose my mind or not. I do need to be reminded that I'm not going insane.
MNK99
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 5,358
-Sounds annoying, and I said it a lot as did others...
---> But: FASTING , refeed... TEI or ARL.
---Ella, Ru, Randro.
-in that order for benefits (I think) for me. TEI and ARL... are yet to happen for me. HS and Ihatefin and others did all these too mostly (Ihf no long fast).
-I had most of those symptoms on PH (site that shall not be named, and all of us should block even when better)... --> most gone. --> a few remain, but life normal ish pretty normal minus other issues, career/etc stuff. --> lots of fasting... and slow careful refeed. ---> and also: worked out a lot. --> other things too on this site, some I like, some
I did not. Some I will not try, but there's something for everyone in a sense. If you are 6'3 150lb or something, I can understand not wanting to water fast.
--> as far as work... well most work and workouts I've done as an adult were without food... and also, fasted and workouts... basically (mental health - I think it helps that).
--> My stories confusing, but some could back this up...
--> anyways It can work man, don't give up. I realize you're not saying you are... but yeah derealization and a ton of other issues post one SNRI and post FIN... gone now.
--> It was horrendous. Still a few issues, but If I felt it was possible then, I'd have done the first 3 lines earlier on.
---> But: FASTING , refeed... TEI or ARL.
---Ella, Ru, Randro.
-in that order for benefits (I think) for me. TEI and ARL... are yet to happen for me. HS and Ihatefin and others did all these too mostly (Ihf no long fast).
-I had most of those symptoms on PH (site that shall not be named, and all of us should block even when better)... --> most gone. --> a few remain, but life normal ish pretty normal minus other issues, career/etc stuff. --> lots of fasting... and slow careful refeed. ---> and also: worked out a lot. --> other things too on this site, some I like, some
I did not. Some I will not try, but there's something for everyone in a sense. If you are 6'3 150lb or something, I can understand not wanting to water fast.
--> as far as work... well most work and workouts I've done as an adult were without food... and also, fasted and workouts... basically (mental health - I think it helps that).
--> My stories confusing, but some could back this up...
--> anyways It can work man, don't give up. I realize you're not saying you are... but yeah derealization and a ton of other issues post one SNRI and post FIN... gone now.
--> It was horrendous. Still a few issues, but If I felt it was possible then, I'd have done the first 3 lines earlier on.
RU486/Ella and R-andro are still on the list. I may do these immediately after TRT if that doesn't work. Problem is going to be getting money to buy all this stuff, and of course the time commitment.
If this next experiment fails, I'll be 26 years old and still basically fully in PFS. Hard to believe. I don't have a career and cannot function normally. I'm basically living in poverty. I can't believe my life has come to this. It's truly pathetic. Everyone is surpassing me in every way imaginable. I know everyone has their problems to deal with, but I cannot imagine living 50+ more years. I'm in a prison of my own mind. The last thing I need is a life sentence.
I try not to think about these external problems because getting through the day is hard enough, but it's been wearing on me.
MNK99
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 5,358
-My life was destroyed 19-21 man... and late 20's and was HARD anyways... with neuropsyche issues... and I'll have and have a career rite now, made it during recovery, and got into while 20... but changes as time goes on.
Fam members PhD's, Surgeons... all of them changed their career multiple times 30s 40s etc... their career now looks almost nothing like it did at my or your age let alone 20.
maybe not everyone's like that, but adaptability is the most important skill to me, personally speaking. I have it in spades (to dangerous levels at times), but what I'm saying is... just cuz you're 26 and have PFS doesn't mean you'll never have a career let alone money.
It's hard, I know... I have other chronic stuff even once this is cured, which is part of why my log and explanations on other sites are super confusing.
I had to fight my second uni 12 times to get 2 degrees that I knew were a waste of time, life is hard mate... but I'm a fighter and intelligent... and if others live life on "easy mode", there's no way I'm going to let myself be kept down and them surpass me. I was on the verge of NICE jobs and school (basically, still had to apply to the school thing), but... I tried treating some neuropsyche issues (cognitive dysfunction, etc... looks like add worse tho)... anyways, that messed up hair, hence I used fin... and was labotomized, for all intents and purposes. So I feel your pain, but in 240 days, I got rid of say 27/30 or 31/34 ish symptoms (best not to count, and be all OCD about this). I did it as fast as I could basically, bc I already went thru PSSD and MANIA (way longer than necessary). --> My neuropsyche issues are 30%+ suicide rates acc to some measures, but there's a lot of bs there too...
so it's hard, but... if I can, so can others.
-Imagine being as smart as your highest achieving peers (most of them anyways, even smarter than most, not the top 3-4 guys tho) and working 3x harder to get jack... that's ADHD man... plus the other issues alluded to... so that all and difficulty treating them (treat one worsens the supposedly fatal one and vice versa, treat the bad one, worsens cognition), then getting pfs, AFTER beating PSSD in early 20's, and a ton of other stuff too... incl drug and alc addiction. Life's hard man, Idk how else to put it... but, you need to fight.******
--they don't have all the answers, medical science... and some things (a lot... most maybe?) often feel like a "life sentence" but they are not.
-- all the surgeons, docs, millionaires, poor, rich, whoevers I know... got issues too.... but, if you can fix PFS, all those are likely easier to deal with.
-- I made and lost fortunes too early 20's (relatively speaking).
--BUT young enough to fix and be long term focused. And so are you.
--KEY: **Hard work ethic, mental resiliance, and discipline**. Accentuate the positive. Find your passion and chase that... surround yourself with likeminded people w/ similar
goals.
-there's nothing to do from rock bottom but go up.
-Listen to Eminem man.
---> I beat with zero help: PSSD, MANIA at times..., ALCOHOL, substances, something bad(some financial help), ... etc cutting frds off was key.
Fam members PhD's, Surgeons... all of them changed their career multiple times 30s 40s etc... their career now looks almost nothing like it did at my or your age let alone 20.
maybe not everyone's like that, but adaptability is the most important skill to me, personally speaking. I have it in spades (to dangerous levels at times), but what I'm saying is... just cuz you're 26 and have PFS doesn't mean you'll never have a career let alone money.
It's hard, I know... I have other chronic stuff even once this is cured, which is part of why my log and explanations on other sites are super confusing.
I had to fight my second uni 12 times to get 2 degrees that I knew were a waste of time, life is hard mate... but I'm a fighter and intelligent... and if others live life on "easy mode", there's no way I'm going to let myself be kept down and them surpass me. I was on the verge of NICE jobs and school (basically, still had to apply to the school thing), but... I tried treating some neuropsyche issues (cognitive dysfunction, etc... looks like add worse tho)... anyways, that messed up hair, hence I used fin... and was labotomized, for all intents and purposes. So I feel your pain, but in 240 days, I got rid of say 27/30 or 31/34 ish symptoms (best not to count, and be all OCD about this). I did it as fast as I could basically, bc I already went thru PSSD and MANIA (way longer than necessary). --> My neuropsyche issues are 30%+ suicide rates acc to some measures, but there's a lot of bs there too...
so it's hard, but... if I can, so can others.
-Imagine being as smart as your highest achieving peers (most of them anyways, even smarter than most, not the top 3-4 guys tho) and working 3x harder to get jack... that's ADHD man... plus the other issues alluded to... so that all and difficulty treating them (treat one worsens the supposedly fatal one and vice versa, treat the bad one, worsens cognition), then getting pfs, AFTER beating PSSD in early 20's, and a ton of other stuff too... incl drug and alc addiction. Life's hard man, Idk how else to put it... but, you need to fight.******
--they don't have all the answers, medical science... and some things (a lot... most maybe?) often feel like a "life sentence" but they are not.
-- all the surgeons, docs, millionaires, poor, rich, whoevers I know... got issues too.... but, if you can fix PFS, all those are likely easier to deal with.
-- I made and lost fortunes too early 20's (relatively speaking).
--BUT young enough to fix and be long term focused. And so are you.
--KEY: **Hard work ethic, mental resiliance, and discipline**. Accentuate the positive. Find your passion and chase that... surround yourself with likeminded people w/ similar
goals.
-there's nothing to do from rock bottom but go up.
-Listen to Eminem man.
---> I beat with zero help: PSSD, MANIA at times..., ALCOHOL, substances, something bad(some financial help), ... etc cutting frds off was key.
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Orion
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 879
@Helen has posted alot about Test and Prog recently. Should aim for ~100mg Test per week(~10mg per day) and about 5mg Prog per day to balance. Although strongly recommend avoiding this and work on minerals through either TEI or ARL to balance yourself.
Test drives sodium and Prog drives potassium. Do you have a hairtest and know your Na/K ratio? This could be helpful to monitor.
Test drives sodium and Prog drives potassium. Do you have a hairtest and know your Na/K ratio? This could be helpful to monitor.
While I share your doubts about the efficacy of this potential treatment, I understand the want to try something, anything to improve. Be sure to keep us updated mate.
I'm past the point of desperately searching for one thing to fix this. It's a shame others are viewing it this way, just because I'm choosing to use testosterone. You would have to carefully consider my past experiences in order to understand why I'm trying this now.
I know the standard "Peat stuff" wasn't the silver bullet for a lot of people here, but here is what he had to say about the permanence of PFS. It might be a boost for some people feeling desperate.
Me:
Dr. Peat,
> I'm wondering if you could imagine a situation in which a person could be permanently damaged by using a drug like finasteride, with no hope of resolving the altered neurosteroid synthesis problem. Do you think this is possible, or is it always fixable?
Ray Peat:
>It's always fixable.
Me:
Dr. Peat,
> I'm wondering if you could imagine a situation in which a person could be permanently damaged by using a drug like finasteride, with no hope of resolving the altered neurosteroid synthesis problem. Do you think this is possible, or is it always fixable?
Ray Peat:
>It's always fixable.
I'm trying to motivate myself to get back to work, but the brain fog is still horrendous.
I'm 2 weeks into testosterone and I haven't noticed anything yet, but I understand that it's too early in treatment to really notice anything.
I want to make enough money to buy some Anavar and RU486. I'll throw them in the freezer and use them when/if the TRT doesn't work. I'll try R-Andro when I come off too. Still have that laying around.
Yesterday I read that one of the other post finasteride people from this forum killed himself some months back. I must have missed it. It ruined my whole day. Insane anxiety. I guess I still feel like there's a very real possibility that this might end that way for me. I'm just trying to control those thoughts.
I'm 2 weeks into testosterone and I haven't noticed anything yet, but I understand that it's too early in treatment to really notice anything.
I want to make enough money to buy some Anavar and RU486. I'll throw them in the freezer and use them when/if the TRT doesn't work. I'll try R-Andro when I come off too. Still have that laying around.
Yesterday I read that one of the other post finasteride people from this forum killed himself some months back. I must have missed it. It ruined my whole day. Insane anxiety. I guess I still feel like there's a very real possibility that this might end that way for me. I'm just trying to control those thoughts.