Experimental Hair Loss Options

[Noodle]

Dunno, my gf always tests low in iron for blood and her hair test showed low iron too. she's got a mega mane, thick, long and no recession at all

Thats what I mean. Women often do have low iron. Thats why its still available.

As soon as it gets to excess. Which happens with NOT losing blood anymore via menstruation. Or never really lose blood like men.
And in excess it gets unavailable. Same with copper. Both stored in the liver.

But in men it can start to build up the ~whole life, and in women it can start after menopause. So they are spared till age~40-50.

For example manganese uptake is way higher in womens intestines because of lower iron. Increased Iron stores lowers manganese uptake.

 

[brix]

@brix

Any update on the copper/calcium for your hair?

Seems to be working well. Don’t notice much hair in the shower, sink, or pillow. But not actively looking for the first time in 7 years. My girlfriend definitely sheds more than me.

It is looking more filled in already. I shaved it to a number 2 about a month ago and it’s looking better.

 

[TubZy]

@brix

Any update on the copper/calcium for your hair?

Seems to be working well. Don’t notice much hair in the shower, sink, or pillow. But not actively looking for the first time in 7 years. My girlfriend definitely sheds more than me.

It is looking more filled in already. I shaved it to a number 2 about a month ago and it’s looking better.

I updated the regimen that you are doing in the OP so we can easily keep track of things, b/c I hate going back 5-6 pages so I can edit accordingly so it should be much easy to track this way

 

[brix]

@brix

Any update on the copper/calcium for your hair?

Seems to be working well. Don’t notice much hair in the shower, sink, or pillow. But not actively looking for the first time in 7 years. My girlfriend definitely sheds more than me.

It is looking more filled in already. I shaved it to a number 2 about a month ago and it’s looking better.

I updated the regimen that you are doing in the OP so we can easily keep track of things, b/c I hate going back 5-6 pages so I can edit accordingly so it should be much easy to track this way

I misread the bottle of copper I am taking and it comes out to 4mg/day... not 8mg.

Might want to update that if you can.

 

[TubZy]

Seems to be working well. Don’t notice much hair in the shower, sink, or pillow. But not actively looking for the first time in 7 years. My girlfriend definitely sheds more than me.

It is looking more filled in already. I shaved it to a number 2 about a month ago and it’s looking better.

I updated the regimen that you are doing in the OP so we can easily keep track of things, b/c I hate going back 5-6 pages so I can edit accordingly so it should be much easy to track this way

I misread the bottle of copper I am taking and it comes out to 4mg/day... not 8mg.

Might want to update that if you can.

Just updated it, thanks

 

[JonnyCraig]

I have now added potassium citrate+magnesium oxide (was cheap).

I think I really need the potassium though.

I only used the copper by itself for a few days but I have a sneaking suspicion I shed less on just copper alone VS adding in zinc+manganese..

I guess I'll go back to using only copper (2mg/day) and will add in calcium carbonate at 1500mg based on brix's experience.

I did really like the manganese/zinc idea though..

I am debating doing 4mg copper/day like brix, but isn't this a bit much?

Also, if one is a fast oxidizer.. adding supplemental potassium is a bad idea, right? I do low-carb generally.. I would be surprised if I had good or even average potassium levels. If potassium is high in the cell, does this mean your general level is low and you need to supplement? or? Sorry... I don't have anywhere near as much free time to research as I used to between work killing me and then trying to have a social life and keeping gf happy.. sigh.

 

[JonnyCraig]

Currently on 4mg copper, and doing 1500-2000mg Calcium Carbonate daily, few other things as well. Stopped the zinc/manganese combo.

I must say.. I am slightly considering getting back on oral progrestone @ 100mg/day. I think my hair is thinning overall in general and call me crazy but on the progesterone it seemed to be O.K... it could just be in my head though, but.. heh. After reading what gbold said about progesterone and how it lower's T, etc, I would rather not touch it.. but, is it possible it was actually working for me, hair wise? It is unlikely, right? Or are there some reasons why it may work for me?

 

[TubZy]

Since everyone has been talking about MSM, and leveraging Gbol's theory about hair loss being related to potassium. Everything so far that I have tried in the past LOWERS potassium. MSM, castor oil. he shou wu etc. and it also looks like taurine balance potassium in the cell

MSM is Calcium and Potassium antagonist and also lowers the amount of Copper in body. The latter is a not a problem, as most people generally run high on copper, so unless there’s an established copper deficiency, there’s no need to worry. People with Calcium and Potassium deficiency should not take MSM or consume foods high in sulphur.

 

[TubZy]

Currently on 4mg copper, and doing 1500-2000mg Calcium Carbonate daily, few other things as well. Stopped the zinc/manganese combo.

I must say.. I am slightly considering getting back on oral progrestone @ 100mg/day. I think my hair is thinning overall in general and call me crazy but on the progesterone it seemed to be O.K... it could just be in my head though, but.. heh. After reading what gbold said about progesterone and how it lower's T, etc, I would rather not touch it.. but, is it possible it was actually working for me, hair wise? It is unlikely, right? Or are there some reasons why it may work for me?

zinc and manganese makes me feel like shit. Zinc/copper combo I feel way better on.

 

[JDreamer]

Question for any of you guys using Polysorbate 80 .....

Has it made your hair a lot straighter? I know it has with mine and it's crazy how much so. All up until the age of around 14 I had really straight easy to style hair and then after it got really way. This is like a time machine.

 

[Scenes]

Question for any of you guys using Polysorbate 80 .....

Has it made your hair a lot straighter? I know it has with mine and it's crazy how much so. All up until the age of around 14 I had really straight easy to style hair and then after it got really way. This is like a time machine.

Are you using it everyday? I’m kind of once a week maybe.

It seems ok. I noticed the white foam the first time but not as much since.

 

[mattyb]

zinc and manganese makes me feel like shit. Zinc/copper combo I feel way better on.

I find it's much better to just get manganese through the diet. I've looked through tons of dietary records of other people on cronometer and I've almost never found a person who doesn't regularly hit above the RDA of manganese.

 

[TubZy]

zinc and manganese makes me feel like shit. Zinc/copper combo I feel way better on.

I find it's much better to just get manganese through the diet. I've looked through tons of dietary records of other people on cronometer and I've almost never found a person who doesn't regularly hit above the RDA of manganese.

Agreed. I do eat a lot of rice so I probably get a decent amount through diet too, probably overdoing it

 

[JDreamer]

Question for any of you guys using Polysorbate 80 .....

Has it made your hair a lot straighter? I know it has with mine and it's crazy how much so. All up until the age of around 14 I had really straight easy to style hair and then after it got really way. This is like a time machine.

Are you using it everyday? I’m kind of once a week maybe.

It seems ok. I noticed the white foam the first time but not as much since.

Ya, I'm using it in the shower every day. I used to chemically straighten my hair in my late 20's and seriously this P80 gets it that straight.

You don't see the white foam anymore because it clears up over-production of sebum.

 

[TubZy]

What do you guys think of C60? There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence and even some studies too in terms of hair growth

 

[Noodle]

zinc and manganese makes me feel like shit. Zinc/copper combo I feel way better on.

I find it's much better to just get manganese through the diet. I've looked through tons of dietary records of other people on cronometer and I've almost never found a person who doesn't regularly hit above the RDA of manganese.

Agreed. I do eat a lot of rice so I probably get a decent amount through diet too, probably overdoing it

Wow, if we are back to hitting RDA, you can stop taking zinc and all the other things too

Zinc + manganese was not supposed to be taken to get to daily RDA levels.
Its to go back to some kind of balance.

 

[mattyb]

Wow, if we are back to hitting RDA, you can stop taking zinc and all the other things too

Zinc + manganese was not supposed to be taken to get to daily RDA levels.
Its to go back to some kind of balance.

Obviously, but getting excessive Mn through diet is very easy. Super easy to hit like 200% RDA. Zinc is another story - most people never get enough of it, especially men that ejaculate frequently (very easy for adequate intake to be as high as 20-30mg/day in some men).

The whole reason for Mn + Zinc is to restore SOD. Mn for MnSOD and Zn for CuZnSOD. But if your intake of Mn has been high for years (like most people), MnSOD is probably fine and won't need supplementing. Cu + Zn can be useful for people with both low copper and zinc, but many people have high copper, so only zinc is needed for CuZnSOD. It makes sense why some people would benefit most from Cu+Zn. Gbold always talked about Mn + Zinc because in his case he was high copper, he kept his carb intake low, and was fasting a lot, so Mn intake would be low. Most people don't really need excess Mn.

Anyways, healthy hair needs good amounts of bioavailable iron, methionine, and cysteine. This is a tall order, because in order for iron/met/cys, which are all capable of forming complex reactive species, you need to have their reactive precursors under control. This means increasing SOD activity without over-stimulating metabolism and it's downstream ROS production. You also need to chelate calcium, but chelating tisue calcium increases metabolism, again increasing ROS and driving down bioavailability of iron/met/cys. This is a tough problem to solve, and jamming the system with excess Mn won't solve it, since excess Mn inhibits calcium efflux (calcium chelation), and increases ROS formation.

The answer lies (I think) in first chelating calcium and iron for decalcification and to make iron more bioavailable. This will in turn lower end stage RS production and stabilize mitochondria. Then afterwards to increase SOD levels via Mn/Cu/Zn, and then finally to increase met/cys intake. I think doing that while stimulating hair growth physically (e.g. aggressive massage), particularly during the last phase, is the path to hair regrowth.

 

[Noodle]

[mention]mattyb[/mention]

So whats the best way to get iron available and calcium out?
Chelation with vitamin C ?

 

[Aleksandr]

What do you guys think of C60? There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence and even some studies too in terms of hair growth

Since doing this licorice root protocol i feel like ive literally got 10x more bloodflow to my scalp. Seems to be new hairs popping up on my temples too. Ive also been using the lethicin and washing it out with organic dish washing liquid

Maybe its all just physiology? Get that right, balance your minerals and you dont lose hair. Maybe even regrow hair. And you also get the benefits of feeling awesome. Everything improved. But might need to break the calcium shell too with massage or lethicin to actually regrow hair

 

[Aleksandr]

Wow, if we are back to hitting RDA, you can stop taking zinc and all the other things too

Zinc + manganese was not supposed to be taken to get to daily RDA levels.
Its to go back to some kind of balance.

Obviously, but getting excessive Mn through diet is very easy. Super easy to hit like 200% RDA. Zinc is another story - most people never get enough of it, especially men that ejaculate frequently (very easy for adequate intake to be as high as 20-30mg/day in some men).

The whole reason for Mn + Zinc is to restore SOD. Mn for MnSOD and Zn for CuZnSOD. But if your intake of Mn has been high for years (like most people), MnSOD is probably fine and won't need supplementing. Cu + Zn can be useful for people with both low copper and zinc, but many people have high copper, so only zinc is needed for CuZnSOD. It makes sense why some people would benefit most from Cu+Zn. Gbold always talked about Mn + Zinc because in his case he was high copper, he kept his carb intake low, and was fasting a lot, so Mn intake would be low. Most people don't really need excess Mn.

Anyways, healthy hair needs good amounts of bioavailable iron, methionine, and cysteine. This is a tall order, because in order for iron/met/cys, which are all capable of forming complex reactive species, you need to have their reactive precursors under control. This means increasing SOD activity without over-stimulating metabolism and it's downstream ROS production. You also need to chelate calcium, but chelating tisue calcium increases metabolism, again increasing ROS and driving down bioavailability of iron/met/cys. This is a tough problem to solve, and jamming the system with excess Mn won't solve it, since excess Mn inhibits calcium efflux (calcium chelation), and increases ROS formation.

The answer lies (I think) in first chelating calcium and iron for decalcification and to make iron more bioavailable. This will in turn lower end stage RS production and stabilize mitochondria. Then afterwards to increase SOD levels via Mn/Cu/Zn, and then finally to increase met/cys intake. I think doing that while stimulating hair growth physically (e.g. aggressive massage), particularly during the last phase, is the path to hair regrowth.

Interesting you say that. I eat a lot of rice but was low in manganese. I had normal zinc though. Im also low in copper (unless its hidden copper toxicity) but i doubt it. I was also lowish in calcium, but i can hear calcium crackle in my scalp when doing the massage. I have low magnesium too. Lower than calcium.

Actually trace elements says that your calcium to magnesium ratio is super important, if its off then you will calcify the wrong places (like the scalp). I think my magnesium is so low because my sodium is too high because of my response to accutane. Since doing the licorice root ive felt so much more bloodflow to my scalp and have had some hairs sprout in my bald temples. Not enough to look full or anything yet, but its interesting.

Also i found ben greenfields (fitness biohacker guy) hair test and he has super high calcium, but even higher (off the charts) magnesium and a thick juvenile hairline with no baldness in sight at age 35.

Magnesium is also supposed to be very important for heart health and cardiovascular stuff in general, and exercise often depletes it. I used to crash and be all over the place when playing tennis, but now im super consistent. This is only after two cycles. I think im hitting the right thing with this licorice root.