Experimental Hair Loss Options

[brix]

What do you guys think of C60? There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence and even some studies too in terms of hair growth

Since doing this licorice root protocol i feel like ive literally got 10x more bloodflow to my scalp. Seems to be new hairs popping up on my temples too. Ive also been using the lethicin and washing it out with organic dish washing liquid

Maybe its all just physiology? Get that right, balance your minerals and you dont lose hair. Maybe even regrow hair. And you also get the benefits of feeling awesome. Everything improved. But might need to break the calcium shell too with massage or lethicin to actually regrow hair

How much are you taking per day?

 

[Aleksandr]

What do you guys think of C60? There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence and even some studies too in terms of hair growth

Since doing this licorice root protocol i feel like ive literally got 10x more bloodflow to my scalp. Seems to be new hairs popping up on my temples too. Ive also been using the lethicin and washing it out with organic dish washing liquid

Maybe its all just physiology? Get that right, balance your minerals and you dont lose hair. Maybe even regrow hair. And you also get the benefits of feeling awesome. Everything improved. But might need to break the calcium shell too with massage or lethicin to actually regrow hair

How much are you taking per day?

Ive detailed it in the thread 'licorice root log'. Last week was 1/4th teaspoon as a tea 3x a day on 2 days, then 5 days nothing

 

[mattyb]

@mattyb

So whats the best way to get iron available and calcium out?
Chelation with vitamin C ?

Induce acidosis, that's the only way to get minerals out of the tissues/cell and into the serum so they can be dumped or used properly. Fasting/caloric restriction, exercise, and increasing dietary acid load chronically will be the best ways to do this.

 

[mattyb]

Interesting you say that. I eat a lot of rice but was low in manganese. I had normal zinc though. Im also low in copper (unless its hidden copper toxicity) but i doubt it. I was also lowish in calcium, but i can hear calcium crackle in my scalp when doing the massage. I have low magnesium too. Lower than calcium.

Actually trace elements says that your calcium to magnesium ratio is super important, if its off then you will calcify the wrong places (like the scalp). I think my magnesium is so low because my sodium is too high because of my response to accutane. Since doing the licorice root ive felt so much more bloodflow to my scalp and have had some hairs sprout in my bald temples. Not enough to look full or anything yet, but its interesting.

Also i found ben greenfields (fitness biohacker guy) hair test and he has super high calcium, but even higher (off the charts) magnesium and a thick juvenile hairline with no baldness in sight at age 35.

Magnesium is also supposed to be very important for heart health and cardiovascular stuff in general, and exercise often depletes it. I used to crash and be all over the place when playing tennis, but now im super consistent. This is only after two cycles. I think im hitting the right thing with this licorice root.

Are you talking about hair test results or blood test results when talking about low cal/copper/mag? If hair tests, I don't really know much about them. If blood tests, I can comment on that. I'm guessing the accutane induces alkalosis as well, similar to PFS/PSSD.

But yes, magnesium and calcium need to be balanced. During the refeeding phase after chelating calcium, magnesium intake should be 1:1 with calcium (or slightly higher). The Peat diet was awful for that, the mg:ca ratio was more like 1:5 or higher.

 

[Aleksandr]

Interesting you say that. I eat a lot of rice but was low in manganese. I had normal zinc though. Im also low in copper (unless its hidden copper toxicity) but i doubt it. I was also lowish in calcium, but i can hear calcium crackle in my scalp when doing the massage. I have low magnesium too. Lower than calcium.

Actually trace elements says that your calcium to magnesium ratio is super important, if its off then you will calcify the wrong places (like the scalp). I think my magnesium is so low because my sodium is too high because of my response to accutane. Since doing the licorice root ive felt so much more bloodflow to my scalp and have had some hairs sprout in my bald temples. Not enough to look full or anything yet, but its interesting.

Also i found ben greenfields (fitness biohacker guy) hair test and he has super high calcium, but even higher (off the charts) magnesium and a thick juvenile hairline with no baldness in sight at age 35.

Magnesium is also supposed to be very important for heart health and cardiovascular stuff in general, and exercise often depletes it. I used to crash and be all over the place when playing tennis, but now im super consistent. This is only after two cycles. I think im hitting the right thing with this licorice root.

Are you talking about hair test results or blood test results when talking about low cal/copper/mag? If hair tests, I don't really know much about them. If blood tests, I can comment on that. I'm guessing the accutane induces alkalosis as well, similar to PFS/PSSD.

But yes, magnesium and calcium need to be balanced. During the refeeding phase after chelating calcium, magnesium intake should be 1:1 with calcium (or slightly higher). The Peat diet was awful for that, the mg:ca ratio was more like 1:5 or higher.

Hair test. My venous blood showed i was in acidosis

Yeah im dairy intolerant so i dont get much calcium anyway, but i think my high sodium / aldosterone depletes my mg

 

[mattyb]

Hair test. My venous blood showed i was in acidosis

Yeah im dairy intolerant so i dont get much calcium anyway, but i think my high sodium / aldosterone depletes my mg

No it didn't. Your pCO2 and pH were normal for a venous blood gas.

 

[Aleksandr]

Hair test. My venous blood showed i was in acidosis

Yeah im dairy intolerant so i dont get much calcium anyway, but i think my high sodium / aldosterone depletes my mg

No it didn't. Your pCO2 and pH were normal for a venous blood gas.

Arent they out of range on the acidic side?

Lower ph, higher co2.

https://m.imgur.com/a/kTpAJ

Well anyway, im not in alkalosis

 

[mattyb]

Those reference ranges are for an ABG, VBGs don't have established reference ranges. CO2 and pH can be as much as 20% higher/lower on a VBG compared to ABG. We can't really say for sure what state you're in.

 

[Scenes]

[mention]mattyb[/mention]

So whats the best way to get iron available and calcium out?
Chelation with vitamin C ?

Induce acidosis, that's the only way to get minerals out of the tissues/cell and into the serum so they can be dumped or used properly. Fasting/caloric restriction, exercise, and increasing dietary acid load chronically will be the best ways to do this.

[mention]mattyb[/mention]

So a little fasting with some exercise and daily aspirin (acid) should do the trick?

 

[JonnyCraig]

What do you guys think of C60? There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence and even some studies too in terms of hair growth

Purchased 2 bottles, yrs ago.. never took it orally, was too scared. Used topically.. nowhere near long enough to see results.

 

[mattyb]

@mattyb

So a little fasting with some exercise and daily aspirin (acid) should do the trick?

No, not aspirin. Aspirin is a salicylate, which can stimulate the respiratory center and induce respiratory alkalosis.

Dietary acid loads would come from things like fatty acids, protein (particularly glutamate/aspartate, and maybe cysteine), vinegar (don't overdo it with this, very hard on the teeth and esophagus), HCl supplements, and ammonium chloride supplements - this list is in order from least intense to most intense therapy. Then if you pair this up with lots of water to increase urinary mineral excretion, sweating from exercise/saunas, and maybe even blood donations, you could accelerate the mineral loss. While doing this you'll want to replace essential minerals like chloride, sodium, magnesium, and potassium (lots of greens and salt are good for this) while minimizing calcium and iron intake. Zinc/copper/Mn will depend on which one you're high in, but I think replacing those can wait until you're done with the chelation. Then after all this is done you can increase iron, cysteine and methionine intake and hopefully it takes into hair with some physical stimulation from massage.

 

[jacknap]

can't recall if I showed u guys this on rpf

but my friend uses this and says he hasn't lost any hair since using

https://www.theradome.com/page/homepage

 

[JDD]

Isn't inducing acidosis kind of the opposite of what Gbolduev has been recommending? i.e. take methyls to increase breathing rate and dump CO2, this causes alkalosis but then you take HCl, MgCl, KCl which drives potassium into the cell

 

[mattyb]

Isn't inducing acidosis kind of the opposite of what Gbolduev has been recommending? i.e. take methyls to increase breathing rate and dump CO2, this causes alkalosis but then you take HCl, MgCl, KCl which drives potassium into the cell

We don't want to induce respiratory acidosis, which involves CO2 retention. Inducing low level metabolic acidosis will cause a compensatory increase in respiratory rate and enhance CO2 expulsion, which is what we want. It's important to remember that there are always compensatory responses between respiratory and metabolic pH shifts. This is only temporary as well. Eventually we want a return to balance.

Also keep in mind that this is very individualized as well. We all have different issues and will require different interventions. But if there is lots of mineral retention in tissues, and we want to dump those minerals, then we have to induce metabolic acidosis - there is no other way to get those minerals into the serum where they can be dumped via urine/sweat/feces.

 

[Noodle]

So how do you think is lecithine & salt playing its role in that?

Apparently it should dissolve the calcium & fat buildup.

 

[mattyb]

I think salt scrubs are a good idea, for sure. I do them occasionally. I think abrasive scrubs have their place in stimulating hair growth.

I'm not sure on lecithin, not because I doubt it, but because I just don't know a lot about it.

 

[Scenes]

I think salt scrubs are a good idea, for sure. I do them occasionally. I think abrasive scrubs have their place in stimulating hair growth.

I'm not sure on lecithin, not because I doubt it, but because I just don't know a lot about it.

Yeah I’m on board with the salt scrub but I don’t get the lecithin/polysorbate 80 thing.

People are saying the white foam means you’re removing sebum which is blocking hair growth, but I can get the same white foam on my forearm hairs using polysorb and I don’t have hairloss issues there...
[mention]JonnyCraig[/mention]

 

[hairloser]

Where do you guys pull that studies about manganese from?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/role-of-non-androgenic-factors-in-hair-loss-and-hair-regrowth-2471-9323-1000118.pdf

". Jin, Zhu and Wu compared zinc, copper, iron and
manganese contents in hair in patients with male pattern alopecia and
healthy men confirming low levels of nutrients in patterned hair loss
[43]. A recent study by Ozturk et al. compared BMI and levels of zinc,
copper in hair, serum and urine of Turkish male patients with
androgenetic alopecia, again confirming low levels in patients with
androgenetic alopecia "

this is reference of course. Also, does anyone have aggresive AGA and has stopped it ?

 

[Aleksandr]

I think salt scrubs are a good idea, for sure. I do them occasionally. I think abrasive scrubs have their place in stimulating hair growth.

I'm not sure on lecithin, not because I doubt it, but because I just don't know a lot about it.

Yeah I’m on board with the salt scrub but I don’t get the lecithin/polysorbate 80 thing.

People are saying the white foam means you’re removing sebum which is blocking hair growth, but I can get the same white foam on my forearm hairs using polysorb and I don’t have hairloss issues there...
@JonnyCraig

Scenes i dont think the lecithin is about that. It has phosphorous in it which dissolves the calcified areas of the scalp on a cellular level which enables proper blood flow into the folicle again. I think the polysorb is about getting the gunk out of the hair. Gbold said its not as good cos its missing the phosphorous. Also phosphorus is very prometabolic so i think it promotes more growth in the hair. I.e. we want higher potassium and phosphorous for hair growth. I think we also want more magnesium relative t calcium

 

[Noodle]

Wow, if we are back to hitting RDA, you can stop taking zinc and all the other things too

Zinc + manganese was not supposed to be taken to get to daily RDA levels.
Its to go back to some kind of balance.

Obviously, but getting excessive Mn through diet is very easy. Super easy to hit like 200% RDA. Zinc is another story - most people never get enough of it, especially men that ejaculate frequently (very easy for adequate intake to be as high as 20-30mg/day in some men).

The whole reason for Mn + Zinc is to restore SOD. Mn for MnSOD and Zn for CuZnSOD. But if your intake of Mn has been high for years (like most people), MnSOD is probably fine and won't need supplementing. Cu + Zn can be useful for people with both low copper and zinc, but many people have high copper, so only zinc is needed for CuZnSOD. It makes sense why some people would benefit most from Cu+Zn. Gbold always talked about Mn + Zinc because in his case he was high copper, he kept his carb intake low, and was fasting a lot, so Mn intake would be low. Most people don't really need excess Mn.

Anyways, healthy hair needs good amounts of bioavailable iron, methionine, and cysteine. This is a tall order, because in order for iron/met/cys, which are all capable of forming complex reactive species, you need to have their reactive precursors under control. This means increasing SOD activity without over-stimulating metabolism and it's downstream ROS production. You also need to chelate calcium, but chelating tisue calcium increases metabolism, again increasing ROS and driving down bioavailability of iron/met/cys. This is a tough problem to solve, and jamming the system with excess Mn won't solve it, since excess Mn inhibits calcium efflux (calcium chelation), and increases ROS formation.

The answer lies (I think) in first chelating calcium and iron for decalcification and to make iron more bioavailable. This will in turn lower end stage RS production and stabilize mitochondria. Then afterwards to increase SOD levels via Mn/Cu/Zn, and then finally to increase met/cys intake. I think doing that while stimulating hair growth physically (e.g. aggressive massage), particularly during the last phase, is the path to hair regrowth.

Matty I think [mention]gbolduev[/mention] intentions were not only to restore SOD.

First of all was it meant to lower copper to lower estrogen. So that you will have "normal" estrogen levels with balanced DHT/Progesterone. If that is fixed, hopefully calcification will not further progress.
Then for decalcification there are salt scrubs and lectithne (phosphorus).