Experimental Hair Loss Options

[happenstance]

I stopped using lecithin because it gave me glutamate symptoms. From what I read online polysorbate 80 is anti dht locally on the scalp. A lot of people claim it's very beneficial up there with minoxidil but don't think lecithin does anything.

From hairlossworld org:

Polysorbate is an extremely safe and completely harmless substance, and it is even used as a thickening agent in ice creams, mayonnaise, and salad dressings. So, if someone wished to try it as a topical application to stop hair loss, you would think that no one would care- and certainly not the U.S. government. However, since the early 1980s, the Food and Drug Administration, the Federal Trade Commission, and the United States Postal Service have been on a relentless campaign to discredit Polysorbate as a hair restorer, and the case even went to trial. At trial in 1992, there were 107 people who were willing to testify that Polysorbate had produced excellent results for them, and they brought with them before and after pictures, yet the government prosecutor had zero witnesses- expert or otherwise- to testify that it didn’t work. Nevertheless, the outcome was that it became illegal to claim that Polysorbate aided hair growth.  However, according to the research of Dr. Purola and others, Polysorbate works all over the scalp, including the hairline in front, plus it is perfectly safe. For goodness sake, you can eat Polysorbate, and millions do unwittingly in numerous products that they ingest every day; so how much safer can you get than that?

 

[Scenes]

Anyone following Travis from RP forum? He believes he’s put all the puzzle pieces together on hairloss:

“I just did some reading just now on the downstream mechanisms—the ones after cortisol and aldosterone activation. A main player appears to be TGF-β₁, which shut's off the anagen phase of the hair cylcle. The genetic mice which over-express this, or it's receptor, have the same bald skin as mineralcorticoid hyperexpressed mice: It is shiny and has no pores. Aldosterone has been shown to upregulate TGF-β₁ about threefold, and skin is the other natural target for mineralcorticoid activity; sodium excretion needs to be regulated in the skin as well—through the sweat.

It almost looks like an evolutionary mechanism to prevent mineral loss through the skin, and aquatic animals in saline water would certainly need such a device. Why cortisol activates the mineralcorticoid receptor could be somewhat accidental, but it has much to do with 11β-HSD₁ expression (which DHT actually upregulates slightly, so there's a link there.) At the moment, the cell signal downstream of even TGF-β₁ appears to be prostaglandin E₂—linking oleuropein and inflammation in with mineralcorticoid pathway.

And I found what appears to be the best natural mineralcorticoid inhibitor. It is called wedelolactone and it's found in Eclipta species. It has been shown to both lower blood pressure and grow hair in nude mice, just what you'd expect from an anti-mineralcorticoid. This is safe internally.

The ones safe only topically are spironolactone (mineralcorticoid receptor inhibitor) and enoxolone (11β-HSD₁ inhibitor). Cyclosporine A is impossible to find and I'm really starting to question the standard mechanism for how this works. It's a really big molecule, a cyclic protein, and I'm getting the feeling that it actually inhibits TGF-β₁ directly—perhaps by binding to its cell membrane receptors.

I think oleuropein might end-up on the list by inhibiting the intracellular signalling cascade downstream of 11β-HSD₁. This would be convenient, if true, because it would tie everything together neatly.”

 

[JonnyCraig]

Thanks.

I am now doing 2mg copper per night. Stopped Manganese/Zinc.

Should I... be doing all 3?

Haha well as best as I can tell, copper/calcium for fast oxidizers and zing/mang for slow. But of course, this is pretty vague and two strict oxidization types has been argued against here.

Do you have any idea which type you may be, or any abnormalities in your blood work?

I think the stuff Travis is researching is pretty interesting. Spiro/cyclosporine topically as MR antagonists. I know for certain a few people have regrown full heads of hair with spiro but it has nasty anti-androgen effects taken orally.

I would technically be labeled as a fast oxidizer. Thin/muscular.. work out a lot.

I had blood panel done in July 2016. I had low T... ferritin was at 63, etc. Thing is I ran RU58841 from Oct2015-Jan2016. So perhaps that was a culprit in the low T department.

Also, TSH was at 4.23...

 

[hairloser]

whats with spiro these days? I've never seen anyone achieving results with it. Also, there is some site selling it, but you don't hear from people about it, so most likely doesn't work.

 

[tfcjesse]

[mention]Scenes[/mention] Yes, I follow his posts on RPF. Some promising content as of late.

[mention]JonnyCraig[/mention] Hmm. When did you last have your blood labs? Might be helpful to get a recent test. How's the copper/calcium going?

 

[Aleksandr]

Thanks.

I am now doing 2mg copper per night. Stopped Manganese/Zinc.

Should I... be doing all 3?

Haha well as best as I can tell, copper/calcium for fast oxidizers and zing/mang for slow. But of course, this is pretty vague and two strict oxidization types has been argued against here.

Do you have any idea which type you may be, or any abnormalities in your blood work?

I think the stuff Travis is researching is pretty interesting. Spiro/cyclosporine topically as MR antagonists. I know for certain a few people have regrown full heads of hair with spiro but it has nasty anti-androgen effects taken orally.

I would technically be labeled as a fast oxidizer. Thin/muscular.. work out a lot.

I had blood panel done in July 2016. I had low T... ferritin was at 63, etc. Thing is I ran RU58841 from Oct2015-Jan2016. So perhaps that was a culprit in the low T department.

Also, TSH was at 4.23...

Ben greenfield is thin / muscular. He was a slow 4, slowest of the slows

 

[Aleksandr]

I stopped using lecithin because it gave me glutamate symptoms. From what I read online polysorbate 80 is anti dht locally on the scalp. A lot of people claim it's very beneficial up there with minoxidil but don't think lecithin does anything.

From hairlossworld org:

Polysorbate is an extremely safe and completely harmless substance, and it is even used as a thickening agent in ice creams, mayonnaise, and salad dressings. So, if someone wished to try it as a topical application to stop hair loss, you would think that no one would care- and certainly not the U.S. government. However, since the early 1980s, the Food and Drug Administration, the Federal Trade Commission, and the United States Postal Service have been on a relentless campaign to discredit Polysorbate as a hair restorer, and the case even went to trial. At trial in 1992, there were 107 people who were willing to testify that Polysorbate had produced excellent results for them, and they brought with them before and after pictures, yet the government prosecutor had zero witnesses- expert or otherwise- to testify that it didn’t work. Nevertheless, the outcome was that it became illegal to claim that Polysorbate aided hair growth.  However, according to the research of Dr. Purola and others, Polysorbate works all over the scalp, including the hairline in front, plus it is perfectly safe. For goodness sake, you can eat Polysorbate, and millions do unwittingly in numerous products that they ingest every day; so how much safer can you get than that?

What are glutamate symptoms?

Ive been using the leithicin for 2 or 3 weeks now, my scalp is feeling looser. Seems to be good. Its supposed to decalcify, and it seems to be doing that

 

[happenstance]

Glutamate toxicity, like anger anxiety etc.

 

[JonnyCraig]

@JonnyCraig Hmm. When did you last have your blood labs? Might be helpful to get a recent test. How's the copper/calcium going?

Last tests were July 2016.

Yes I will have them redone sometime soon.

I must say, copper (4mg per night) and calcium carbonate (1500mg/day approx) so far so good!!!

I just ordered more copper..

I swear I am shedding way less than before it seems.

I don't want to speak too soon though..

BTW I feel like I may be getting slight thickening in terms of... when I wake-up I notice hair feels thicker without having to brush it at all, if that makes sense..

 

[TubZy]

Anyone following Travis from RP forum? He believes he’s put all the puzzle pieces together on hairloss:

“I just did some reading just now on the downstream mechanisms—the ones after cortisol and aldosterone activation. A main player appears to be TGF-β₁, which shut's off the anagen phase of the hair cylcle. The genetic mice which over-express this, or it's receptor, have the same bald skin as mineralcorticoid hyperexpressed mice: It is shiny and has no pores. Aldosterone has been shown to upregulate TGF-β₁ about threefold, and skin is the other natural target for mineralcorticoid activity; sodium excretion needs to be regulated in the skin as well—through the sweat.

It almost looks like an evolutionary mechanism to prevent mineral loss through the skin, and aquatic animals in saline water would certainly need such a device. Why cortisol activates the mineralcorticoid receptor could be somewhat accidental, but it has much to do with 11β-HSD₁ expression (which DHT actually upregulates slightly, so there's a link there.) At the moment, the cell signal downstream of even TGF-β₁ appears to be prostaglandin E₂—linking oleuropein and inflammation in with mineralcorticoid pathway.

And I found what appears to be the best natural mineralcorticoid inhibitor. It is called wedelolactone and it's found in Eclipta species. It has been shown to both lower blood pressure and grow hair in nude mice, just what you'd expect from an anti-mineralcorticoid. This is safe internally.

The ones safe only topically are spironolactone (mineralcorticoid receptor inhibitor) and enoxolone (11β-HSD₁ inhibitor). Cyclosporine A is impossible to find and I'm really starting to question the standard mechanism for how this works. It's a really big molecule, a cyclic protein, and I'm getting the feeling that it actually inhibits TGF-β₁ directly—perhaps by binding to its cell membrane receptors.

I think oleuropein might end-up on the list by inhibiting the intracellular signalling cascade downstream of 11β-HSD₁. This would be convenient, if true, because it would tie everything together neatly.”

Yeah Travis knows his stuff. He actually wrote in the early PFS thread back on RP about hair like your quote above. I talked to him via PM in the past and me and him tried finding a valid cyclosporine source to test it out. I found some but the stuff didn't dissolve in olive oil since the molecule is so big and was loaded with other exicpients. I think finding the pure powder would be best and and diluting it in olive oil and applied topically.

oleuropein is interesting too. You could probably find some high quality powder on Amazon and just mix it in water or oil and apply topically. Actually, there was a big thread on oleuropein a few years ago on one of the other hair loss forums and many people were getting results. I think they were also using green tea extract too.

 

[mattyb]

I'm on month three of using aggressive massage now. I use an occasional salt scrub as well. I'm also following a general protocol of "acidification" - e.g. more fasting/cal restriction (mostly IF), more exercise, greens/evoo/vinegar, less carbs, more sulfur rich proteins (lots of pork and eggs), etc.

I've been bald since 21 (lost it all during a severe bout of depression and weight loss between 18-21), stopped shedding at around 25/26, and am now 31. I used to have naturally thick and curly hair. Recently I've had a large growth in velus-like thin/short hairs, tons of coverage over the entire hairline - in certain lights it looks like I actually have a full head of hair. The problem is that these velus hairs have a short half life and cycle quickly, they never get really long. I have other areas of patchy dark hair (my original hair) that can get long if I let it.

Last night my girlfriend pointed out something - I had a small patch of long (+2") light fine hairs at the crown that I must have missed when trimming on the weekend. They weren't like my original dark hair, and they weren't the velus-like hair either. They were more like the fine long hairs most children have early on. They were clearly new growth.

Excited to keep this going. I don't expect to see any major movement, but I'm hoping to see some significant regrowth by late next year.

 

[Helen]

I'm on month three of using aggressive massage now. I use an occasional salt scrub as well. I'm also following a general protocol of "acidification" - e.g. more fasting/cal restriction (mostly IF), more exercise, greens/evoo/vinegar, less carbs, more sulfur rich proteins (lots of pork and eggs), etc.

I've been bald since 21 (lost it all during a severe bout of depression and weight loss between 18-21), stopped shedding at around 25/26, and am now 31. I used to have naturally thick and curly hair. Recently I've had a large growth in velus-like thin/short hairs, tons of coverage over the entire hairline - in certain lights it looks like I actually have a full head of hair. The problem is that these velus hairs have a short half life and cycle quickly, they never get really long. I have other areas of patchy dark hair (my original hair) that can get long if I let it.

Last night my girlfriend pointed out something - I had a small patch of long (+2") light fine hairs at the crown that I must have missed when trimming on the weekend. They weren't like my original dark hair, and they weren't the velus-like hair either. They were more like the fine long hairs most children have early on. They were clearly new growth.

Excited to keep this going. I don't expect to see any major movement, but I'm hoping to see some significant regrowth by late next year.

You should do one 40 day breuss. It will prep you for a lot of hair growth,

 

[TubZy]

I'm on month three of using aggressive massage now. I use an occasional salt scrub as well. I'm also following a general protocol of "acidification" - e.g. more fasting/cal restriction (mostly IF), more exercise, greens/evoo/vinegar, less carbs, more sulfur rich proteins (lots of pork and eggs), etc.

I've been bald since 21 (lost it all during a severe bout of depression and weight loss between 18-21), stopped shedding at around 25/26, and am now 31. I used to have naturally thick and curly hair. Recently I've had a large growth in velus-like thin/short hairs, tons of coverage over the entire hairline - in certain lights it looks like I actually have a full head of hair. The problem is that these velus hairs have a short half life and cycle quickly, they never get really long. I have other areas of patchy dark hair (my original hair) that can get long if I let it.

Last night my girlfriend pointed out something - I had a small patch of long (+2") light fine hairs at the crown that I must have missed when trimming on the weekend. They weren't like my original dark hair, and they weren't the velus-like hair either. They were more like the fine long hairs most children have early on. They were clearly new growth.

Excited to keep this going. I don't expect to see any major movement, but I'm hoping to see some significant regrowth by late next year.

You should do one 40 day breuss. It will prep you for a lot of hair growth,

Why does MSM, taurine, biotin etc. all help hair? Is it related to minerals or lowering potassium?

 

[mattyb]

You should do one 40 day breuss. It will prep you for a lot of hair growth,

I won't be able to do a long fast until next summer when I can take some time off. Both of my jobs require too much focus or are too physically active and I can't afford a dip in performance in either.

Next summer I will likely be able to take 2 months off (if all goes according to plan) and I will likely do a 21 day Breuss then. So it's in the works.

 

[Orion]

You should do one 40 day breuss. It will prep you for a lot of hair growth,

I won't be able to do a long fast until next summer when I can take some time off. Both of my jobs require too much focus or are too physically active and I can't afford a dip in performance in either.

Next summer I will likely be able to take 2 months off (if all goes according to plan) and I will likely do a 21 day Breuss then. So it's in the works.

I am currently on day 23 of a planned 54 day Breuss (almost half way through), surprisingly have pretty good energy levels and sleeping well. Still working and walking every day. Although a fast paced job environment might be hard to keep up in... mine is more sedentary and involving reading/researching/coding/etc... Skin has improved dramatically, leaning out very nicely, will report on hair later, still seem to be shedding at this point.

 

[mattyb]

I am currently on day 23 of a planned 54 day Breuss (almost half way through), surprisingly have pretty good energy levels and sleeping well. Still working and walking every day. Although a fast paced job environment might be hard to keep up in... mine is more sedentary and involving reading/researching/coding/etc... Skin has improved dramatically, leaning out very nicely, will report on hair later, still seem to be shedding at this point.

Well that is promising to hear. I have done longer water fasts before and was pretty useless honestly. Breuss sounds easier.

 

[dante]

I am currently on day 23 of a planned 54 day Breuss (almost half way through), surprisingly have pretty good energy levels and sleeping well. Still working and walking every day. Although a fast paced job environment might be hard to keep up in... mine is more sedentary and involving reading/researching/coding/etc... Skin has improved dramatically, leaning out very nicely, will report on hair later, still seem to be shedding at this point.

Hey Orion,since your job requires mental effort,are you able to concentrate properly on this breuss fast compared to pre-fast?

 

[Orion]

I am currently on day 23 of a planned 54 day Breuss (almost half way through), surprisingly have pretty good energy levels and sleeping well. Still working and walking every day. Although a fast paced job environment might be hard to keep up in... mine is more sedentary and involving reading/researching/coding/etc... Skin has improved dramatically, leaning out very nicely, will report on hair later, still seem to be shedding at this point.

Hey Orion,since your job requires mental effort,are you able to concentrate properly on this breuss fast compared to pre-fast?

Have not found any change in concentration, but I do get more irritable easily, oh and daydream alot more about recipes, cooking, baking and eating!

The worst symptom I have, is the low metabolism cold hands and feet. Really hard keeping hands warm... annoying.

 

[Aleksandr]

I'm on month three of using aggressive massage now. I use an occasional salt scrub as well. I'm also following a general protocol of "acidification" - e.g. more fasting/cal restriction (mostly IF), more exercise, greens/evoo/vinegar, less carbs, more sulfur rich proteins (lots of pork and eggs), etc.

I've been bald since 21 (lost it all during a severe bout of depression and weight loss between 18-21), stopped shedding at around 25/26, and am now 31. I used to have naturally thick and curly hair. Recently I've had a large growth in velus-like thin/short hairs, tons of coverage over the entire hairline - in certain lights it looks like I actually have a full head of hair. The problem is that these velus hairs have a short half life and cycle quickly, they never get really long. I have other areas of patchy dark hair (my original hair) that can get long if I let it.

Last night my girlfriend pointed out something - I had a small patch of long (+2") light fine hairs at the crown that I must have missed when trimming on the weekend. They weren't like my original dark hair, and they weren't the velus-like hair either. They were more like the fine long hairs most children have early on. They were clearly new growth.

Excited to keep this going. I don't expect to see any major movement, but I'm hoping to see some significant regrowth by late next year.

Thats a really interesting experiment. Be sure to take some before and after photos of your scalp

 

[mattyb]

Thats a really interesting experiment. Be sure to take some before and after photos of your scalp

It's all or nothing baby. I'm not happy with some small regrowth. I'm only posting pictures if my hair is completely restored, and in that case any old pictures should do.