gbold and mattyb discuss chloride and random health topics

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: Scenes RU Log

<r><QUOTE author="mattyb" post_id="4479" time="1510949740" user_id="95"><s>
mattyb post_id=4479 time=1510949740 user_id=95 said:
</s>
Ferritin lowered on it's own as far as I know. I always just interpreted it as a sign of persistent inflammation likely resulting from mast cell activation. I figured once I cleared up the underlying problem it would go down. It did.<br/>
<br/>
Overall copper intake was never that high. Usually around RDA levels, like most things. I would say spinach was the most predominant green I had, and it's pretty low in copper relative to other micronutrients. But copper concentrations are really dependent on soil conditions, and who knows, the greenhouse I buy from could be high/low/normal - I have no idea.<br/>
<br/>
Greens + exercise wasn't the only thing I did (I always had exercised after all, that never changed). I just noticed the biggest change after starting mornings off with greens/acv/evoo - easily had the biggest impact and continues to help if symptoms ever creep back. Everything helped a little bit. All in all I did (and still do) intermittent fasting, breathing exercises (repeated maximum exhalations), moved around more, dropped calcium intake down way lower, increased fat/carb ratio, supped a bit of zinc to bring it up just over RDA levels, a bit more cardio relative to weightlifting, and brought up cysteine/methionine intake.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>
Whats an example of the breathing exercises you do? How long for? How many reps? Is it like holotrophic breathing?</r>
 

mattyb

Moderator
Messages
833
Re: Scenes RU Log

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="4495" time="1510958678" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=4495 time=1510958678 user_id=66 said:
</s>
Whats an example of the breathing exercises you do? How long for? How many reps? Is it like holotrophic breathing?
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I do maximum exhalations, so I take a normal breath, but then focus on blowing out as much air as possible until nothing is left in me. I do this for maybe a minute or two at a time occasionally when I've been sitting around a lot. If you do it too much you'll start getting light headed, so don't go that far.</r>
 

mattyb

Moderator
Messages
833
Re: Scenes RU Log

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4480" time="1510950382" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4480 time=1510950382 user_id=90 said:
</s>
LOL total anti Peat. Good job. increase methylation, increase CA enzyme. lowered carbs, and breathing exercises. This is exactly what I suggested on RPF<br/>
<br/>
I think you increased your MAO A with spinach, this is what is happening. Spinach has a very high vitamin B2 ratio. This is why your ferritin lowered , since potassium raised in the cell and dragged iron with it to convert progesterone to cortisol. Serotonin fell down from b2 and copper, and this increased ventilation. Vitamin b2 deficiency is the reason for overimposed resp acidosis<br/>
<br/>
Chard is also very high in copper. So all this makes sense. Copper plus b2 plus iron and you back online<br/>
<br/>
this is dealt with succesfully by taking vitamin B2 and zinc at the same time.<br/>
<br/>
this is what I am taking post finasteride. magnesium potassium copper, b2, zinc, boron, and ace.<br/>
<br/>
the only thing I dont really like about greens in this body chemistry is vitamin K. at first it makes the blood thicker.<br/>
<br/>
I like spinach profile, I will add it to my stack.<br/>
I think I will rec spinach to PFS people. I like the profile. it matches for the food against PFS. But in your case. I think it was b2 plus iron copper and zinc. NOT really chloride. And I think you had overcompensated resp acidosis thus all these hives, since you had met alklalosis present also. Same exact thing as with PFS people<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Thanks Matty, I think spinach will be helpful. I think your problem probably from lead toxicity ( alluminum), Look into it. I'm pretty sure this is your problem from childhood, thus scoliosis. thus your glutathione pathway is activated. this puts pressure on molybdenum , methionine , cysteine. ( hairloss is from here) also causes alkalosis on top of chronic res acidosis from skeletal problems. I am very sure this is your original problem. lead displaces copper and iron , and causes those to build up in the brain. this is because you go down on b2 . Thus you will benefit from carnosine, and also zinc and manganese for a while, although it will make you anemic. But you should def try zinc manganese for 2 month to lower high copper and iron level in the brain even if you feel a little anemic from it.<br/>
<br/>
Then you need to use EDTA.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
I would assume if you used magnesium to prior all of this, you would feel bad, since cortisol would not allow calcium absorbtion to happen since alkalosis and magnesium would cause calcium to go in blood from the actual bone. And you have lead in there. this lead would go together with calcium in blood and cause sever disruption of iron and copper metabolism.<br/>
<br/>
I helped a few people with similar disorder, and their scoliosis went away after lead chelation( alluminum). Took about 2 years. EDTA and malic acid.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

LOL. I think you might be jumping the gun on this a bit.<br/>
<br/>
No way I had a B2 deficiency. I drank lots of milk, and ate yogurt, and ice cream my entire life. It's all very rich in B2. My overall B2 intake dropped dramatically once I started making the recent changes. Still close to RDA levels though. I am always close to RDA levels of everything, that never changes. Some nutrients go higher here and there but overall always near RDA levels. <br/>
<br/>
My platelets were sometimes low too, so I'm not worried about the K1. <br/>
<br/>
Honestly I lost my hair because I used to wear a touque (winter hat) all the freakin' time. My scalp would always be itchy and sore because of it, but I just ignored it because I was an ignorant kid. I started balding at 19 because of this. I used to sleep with a touque on, wear it to school, wore it all the time. I was depressed and angsty from about 14-24 and the hair loss just kept going, nothing crazy, just wasn't happy about my situation in life and couldn't see a way out. No else in my family is bald, they all have good hair - I have lots of siblings who grew up in the same house as me and they all are healthy with good hair. Cold exposure is one of the best thing for my scalp. Always finish showers with cold water and usually put cold water on my head a few times a day. I think I fucked up heat sensors (TRPVs) in my scalp when I was a teenager.<br/>
<br/>
I used to take magnesium all the time, it makes me feel good. My bones are also very healthy, incredibly strong and never broke one. I worked in a bone lab for a while and had access to a pQCT scanner, which takes a cross-sectional image of the bone. I had one of the highest mineralization rates we had seen in the lab that summer. <br/>
<br/>
Kyphosis issues started when I was a teenager and worked in a grocery store and a library - both had me bending down low all day every day restocking shelves. I also sat in front of a computer lots as a kid, didn't play much sports, and just let my posture go to shit. The minor scoliosis in my upper t-spine didn't start until I started working out a lot in my mid-20s, I had never heard a doctor comment on it prior to then. <br/>
<br/>
Anyway, I am going to move all of this out of Scenes log. Sorry for cluttering this up buddy!</r>
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Re: Scenes RU Log

<r><QUOTE author="mattyb" post_id="4549" time="1511021830" user_id="95"><s>
mattyb post_id=4549 time=1511021830 user_id=95 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4480" time="1510950382" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4480 time=1510950382 user_id=90 said:
</s>
LOL total anti Peat. Good job. increase methylation, increase CA enzyme. lowered carbs, and breathing exercises. This is exactly what I suggested on RPF<br/>
<br/>
I think you increased your MAO A with spinach, this is what is happening. Spinach has a very high vitamin B2 ratio. This is why your ferritin lowered , since potassium raised in the cell and dragged iron with it to convert progesterone to cortisol. Serotonin fell down from b2 and copper, and this increased ventilation. Vitamin b2 deficiency is the reason for overimposed resp acidosis<br/>
<br/>
Chard is also very high in copper. So all this makes sense. Copper plus b2 plus iron and you back online<br/>
<br/>
this is dealt with succesfully by taking vitamin B2 and zinc at the same time.<br/>
<br/>
this is what I am taking post finasteride. magnesium potassium copper, b2, zinc, boron, and ace.<br/>
<br/>
the only thing I dont really like about greens in this body chemistry is vitamin K. at first it makes the blood thicker.<br/>
<br/>
I like spinach profile, I will add it to my stack.<br/>
I think I will rec spinach to PFS people. I like the profile. it matches for the food against PFS. But in your case. I think it was b2 plus iron copper and zinc. NOT really chloride. And I think you had overcompensated resp acidosis thus all these hives, since you had met alklalosis present also. Same exact thing as with PFS people<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Thanks Matty, I think spinach will be helpful. I think your problem probably from lead toxicity ( alluminum), Look into it. I'm pretty sure this is your problem from childhood, thus scoliosis. thus your glutathione pathway is activated. this puts pressure on molybdenum , methionine , cysteine. ( hairloss is from here) also causes alkalosis on top of chronic res acidosis from skeletal problems. I am very sure this is your original problem. lead displaces copper and iron , and causes those to build up in the brain. this is because you go down on b2 . Thus you will benefit from carnosine, and also zinc and manganese for a while, although it will make you anemic. But you should def try zinc manganese for 2 month to lower high copper and iron level in the brain even if you feel a little anemic from it.<br/>
<br/>
Then you need to use EDTA.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
I would assume if you used magnesium to prior all of this, you would feel bad, since cortisol would not allow calcium absorbtion to happen since alkalosis and magnesium would cause calcium to go in blood from the actual bone. And you have lead in there. this lead would go together with calcium in blood and cause sever disruption of iron and copper metabolism.<br/>
<br/>
I helped a few people with similar disorder, and their scoliosis went away after lead chelation( alluminum). Took about 2 years. EDTA and malic acid.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

LOL. I think you might be jumping the gun on this a bit.<br/>
<br/>
No way I had a B2 deficiency. I drank lots of milk, and ate yogurt, and ice cream my entire life. It's all very rich in B2. My overall B2 intake dropped dramatically once I started making the recent changes. Still close to RDA levels though. I am always close to RDA levels of everything, that never changes. Some nutrients go higher here and there but overall always near RDA levels. <br/>
<br/>
My platelets were sometimes low too, so I'm not worried about the K1. <br/>
<br/>
Honestly I lost my hair because I used to wear a touque (winter hat) all the freakin' time. My scalp would always be itchy and sore because of it, but I just ignored it because I was an ignorant kid. I started balding at 19 because of this. I used to sleep with a touque on, wear it to school, wore it all the time. I was depressed and angsty from about 14-24 and the hair loss just kept going, nothing crazy, just wasn't happy about my situation in life and couldn't see a way out. No else in my family is bald, they all have good hair - I have lots of siblings who grew up in the same house as me and they all are healthy with good hair. Cold exposure is one of the best thing for my scalp. Always finish showers with cold water and usually put cold water on my head a few times a day. I think I fucked up heat sensors (TRPVs) in my scalp when I was a teenager.<br/>
<br/>
I used to take magnesium all the time, it makes me feel good. My bones are also very healthy, incredibly strong and never broke one. I worked in a bone lab for a while and had access to a pQCT scanner, which takes a cross-sectional image of the bone. I had one of the highest mineralization rates we had seen in the lab that summer. <br/>
<br/>
Kyphosis issues started when I was a teenager and worked in a grocery store and a library - both had me bending down low all day every day restocking shelves. I also sat in front of a computer lots as a kid, didn't play much sports, and just let my posture go to shit. The minor scoliosis in my upper t-spine didn't start until I started working out a lot in my mid-20s, I had never heard a doctor comment on it prior to then. <br/>
<br/>
Anyway, I am going to move all of this out of Scenes log. Sorry for cluttering this up buddy!
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

<br/>
Scoliosis is copper deficiency, if you have it, that means your copper isnt working. Milk does not have a good profile for b2 retention. It wastes b2. and wastes calcium really. Thus you see Ray Peat with no teeth. Same as Finish people who consume milk the most and have the highest rate of bone problems in the world.<br/>
<br/>
Bones will be really mineralized in lead toxicity.</r>
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: Scenes RU Log

<r><QUOTE author="mattyb" post_id="4547" time="1511020570" user_id="95"><s>
mattyb post_id=4547 time=1511020570 user_id=95 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="4495" time="1510958678" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=4495 time=1510958678 user_id=66 said:
</s>
Whats an example of the breathing exercises you do? How long for? How many reps? Is it like holotrophic breathing?
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I do maximum exhalations, so I take a normal breath, but then focus on blowing out as much air as possible until nothing is left in me. I do this for maybe a minute or two at a time occasionally when I've been sitting around a lot. If you do it too much you'll start getting light headed, so don't go that far.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>
Interesting. Both win hof and holitrophic breathing make you light headed... they say to lay down while you do it lol</r>
 

mattyb

Moderator
Messages
833
Re: Scenes RU Log

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4568" time="1511035674" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4568 time=1511035674 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<br/>
Scoliosis is copper deficiency, if you have it, that means your copper isnt working. Milk does not have a good profile for b2 retention. It wastes b2. and wastes calcium really. Thus you see Ray Peat with no teeth. Same as Finish people who consume milk the most and have the highest rate of bone problems in the world.<br/>
<br/>
Bones will be really mineralized in lead toxicity.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I think what you mean to say is that copper deficiency can be one of many causes of scoliosis. <br/>
<br/>
All I am saying is that never in my life did I not get enough B2. I have been keeping pretty detailed dietary records for about 5 years now and have never seen any B2 deficiency. I drink coffee, eat B2 rich grains, used to eat dairy, ate B2 rich vegetables. Never low in B2, ever. Great teeth as well, never even had a cavity my entire life. <br/>
<br/>
When it comes to bone, I am talking about trabecular mineralization, not cortical (which is what you pick up on a DEXA) - pQCT assesses both, but trabecular is more important for bone health. My trabecular structure was extremely good. The only evidence I've seen showing lead toxicity enhances BMD is in children, and that's because it accelerates growth so BMD is ahead of age-matched peers. In adults, lead toxicity is related to deficits in bone microstructure and overall BMD (via DEXA).<br/>
<br/>
<URL url="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5092152/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5092152/</URL><br/>
<URL url="http://ovidsp.tx.ovid.com/sp-3.27.1a/ovidweb.cgi?QS2=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"><LINK_TEXT text="http://ovidsp.tx.ovid.com/sp-3.27.1a/ov ... 69de1127d2">http://ovidsp.tx.ovid.com/sp-3.27.1a/ovidweb.cgi?QS2=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</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
<URL url="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3552813/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3552813/</URL></r>
 

Nighteyes

Well-Known Member
Messages
95
Re: Scenes RU Log

<r><QUOTE author="mattyb" post_id="4479" time="1510949740" user_id="95"><s></e></QUOTE>

LOL total anti Peat. Good job. increase methylation, increase CA enzyme. lowered carbs, and breathing exercises. This is exactly what I suggested on RPF<br/>
<br/>
I think you increased your MAO A with spinach, this is what is happening. Spinach has a very high vitamin B2 ratio. This is why your ferritin lowered , since potassium raised in the cell and dragged iron with it to convert progesterone to cortisol. Serotonin fell down from b2 and copper, and this increased ventilation. Vitamin b2 deficiency is the reason for overimposed resp acidosis<br/>
<br/>
Chard is also very high in copper. So all this makes sense. Copper plus b2 plus iron and you back online<br/>
<br/>
this is dealt with succesfully by taking vitamin B2 and zinc at the same time.<br/>
<br/>
this is what I am taking post finasteride. magnesium potassium copper, b2, zinc, boron, and ace.<br/>
<br/>
the only thing I dont really like about greens in this body chemistry is vitamin K. at first it makes the blood thicker.<br/>
<br/>
I like spinach profile, I will add it to my stack.<br/>
I think I will rec spinach to PFS people. I like the profile. it matches for the food against PFS. But in your case. I think it was b2 plus iron copper and zinc. NOT really chloride. And I think you had overcompensated resp acidosis thus all these hives, since you had met alklalosis present also. Same exact thing as with PFS people<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Thanks Matty, I think spinach will be helpful. I think your problem probably from lead toxicity ( alluminum), Look into it. I'm pretty sure this is your problem from childhood, thus scoliosis. thus your glutathione pathway is activated. this puts pressure on molybdenum , methionine , cysteine. ( hairloss is from here) also causes alkalosis on top of chronic res acidosis from skeletal problems. I am very sure this is your original problem. lead displaces copper and iron , and causes those to build up in the brain. this is because you go down on b2 . Thus you will benefit from carnosine, and also zinc and manganese for a while, although it will make you anemic. But you should def try zinc manganese for 2 month to lower high copper and iron level in the brain even if you feel a little anemic from it.<br/>
<br/>
Then you need to use EDTA.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
I would assume if you used magnesium to prior all of this, you would feel bad, since cortisol would not allow calcium absorbtion to happen since alkalosis and magnesium would cause calcium to go in blood from the actual bone. And you have lead in there. this lead would go together with calcium in blood and cause sever disruption of iron and copper metabolism.<br/>
<br/>
I helped a few people with similar disorder, and their scoliosis went away after lead chelation( alluminum). Took about 2 years. EDTA and malic acid.</r>

I am curious @gbolduev.. why do you write (alluminum) after you write lead two times in the quote above? Is it because aluminum toxicity is connected to lead toxicity or that their effects on the body are similar?