PFS almost cured

[Helen]

@wuf


your free DHT is high , and that means it does go into spinal fluid, since free DHT goes into the CSF.

but then it binds to the receptors. thus you dont see it, why would it convert to anything if it binds to the receptors, IT IS LOW and does not convert further into metabolites.

it even does not convert in blood into 3 adiol. ( which is 3 alpha reductase) deficiency in your case.


I would assume since calcium is high and hypothyroid from lack of b12 recycling and methylation.

 

[wuf]

@wuf


your free DHT is high , and that means it does go into spinal fluid, since free DHT goes into the CSF.

but then it binds to the receptors. thus you dont see it, why would it convert to anything if it binds to the receptors, IT IS LOW and does not convert further into metabolites.

it even does not convert in blood into 3 adiol. ( which is 3 alpha reductase) deficiency in your case.


I would assume since calcium is high and hypothyroid from lack of b12 recycling and methylation.

So, it could even be that the only one/main issue is the huge numbers of AR we have.

And many recovered by Cdnuts protocol, so based on CdNuts protocol, how do you think R Andro should be cycled?
I mean is it worth and more usefull to use an high dosage or a low dosage?
And how long to do it, just few days.. stop it, waiting and then start again, or longer cycles?
Thanks

 

[Trump_1776]

So, it could even be that the only one/main issue is the huge numbers of AR we have.

And many recovered by Cdnuts protocol, so based on CdNuts protocol, how do you think R Andro should be cycled?
I mean is it worth and more usefull to use an high dosage or a low dosage?
And how long to do it, just few days.. stop it, waiting and then start again, or longer cycles?
Thanks

We've seen it's pretty individualized

 

[Aflac94]

So, it could even be that the only one/main issue is the huge numbers of AR we have.

And many recovered by Cdnuts protocol, so based on CdNuts protocol, how do you think R Andro should be cycled?
I mean is it worth and more usefull to use an high dosage or a low dosage?
And how long to do it, just few days.. stop it, waiting and then start again, or longer cycles?
Thanks

Curious if anyone has ideas on this too. I recently had a switch turn back on approximately 7days into R-andro. I had done resvertrol prior.

I am high copper on hair test

@Helen

Full effect Didn’t stick , but still I feel my baseline inched up and is staying up. See my log

 

[Rid]

Man this makes so much sense to me but it's playing Russian roulette again. Reduce number of ars, shit works properly again. This is definitely why I got progress doing lic root, but if I went over at all, I'd be fucked. Theres a very delicate line of exactly how much inhibition you need, and if you shoot just barely too high or dont space it enough itll fuck you. Your body just has to adapt as you ween off, and sometimes it catches and increases baseline.

I've always thought fasting has a pretty universal benefit for us because it would resensitize, but not actually reduce ars. Maybe a combination of light dht inhibition to reduce ars followed by light fasting and obviously staying as healthy as possible would prove effective to inch baseline up safely and without many sides. Shit, do a few cycles of that and you could probably decide exactly how many receptors you want. Theres still likely other imbalances in most pfs folk, but I've always thought that those with only sexual sides remaining just had a sensitization problem.

 

[Helen]

I have spoken to PFSstinks( he finally updated ), he is not cured, and this is not really working. He has been doing this for almost a year. and just flying around the sweat spot still.
I think he should try to add Sam-E and see if it would make the difference @PFStinks

 

[Rid]

@Helen, I know you were interested in people healing themselves from a similar method. I've seen about a dozen of such recoveries over my time, I'll try to pull some more up. this one was recently on my mind as I was chatting with the guy who is still doing well much later on. He has seemed to recover from the worst of it from using the inhibition of coconut. It's a long post, but here's a quote for ya:

I don’t think anyone can say yet why this happened. My best guess as to why is that by taking a 5AR inhibitor like coconut I imitated finasteride, brought DHT down to a point closer to the acquired sensitivity of the Androgen Receptor (which is over-sensitive due to exposure to low-DHT blood), then the Androgen Receptor ‘up-sensitises’ itself in this coconut-low-DHT environment. Then when the coconut naturally gets removed from the bloodstream (not literally coconut, but whatever active ingredient is in the coconut), the Androgen Receptor is up-sensitised, but in an environment with higher levels of DHT, so it starts signalling normally and you feel more normal.

link to thread: Surely its the Androgen Receptor

 

[Helen]

@Helen, I know you were interested in people healing themselves from a similar method. I've seen about a dozen of such recoveries over my time, I'll try to pull some more up. this one was recently on my mind as I was chatting with the guy who is still doing well much later on. He has seemed to recover from the worst of it from using the inhibition of coconut. It's a long post, but here's a quote for ya:

I don’t think anyone can say yet why this happened. My best guess as to why is that by taking a 5AR inhibitor like coconut I imitated finasteride, brought DHT down to a point closer to the acquired sensitivity of the Androgen Receptor (which is over-sensitive due to exposure to low-DHT blood), then the Androgen Receptor ‘up-sensitises’ itself in this coconut-low-DHT environment. Then when the coconut naturally gets removed from the bloodstream (not literally coconut, but whatever active ingredient is in the coconut), the Androgen Receptor is up-sensitised, but in an environment with higher levels of DHT, so it starts signalling normally and you feel more normal.

link to thread: Surely its the Androgen Receptor

Coconut oil is anti fungal, and I think this is how it works.

Also another guy who tried this route also which tandenout posted, also crashed.


Also we have the guy who tried saw palmetto route for years, which Joe posted, and nothing happened to him either.

they seem to feel better when DHT goes down, since their body got used to living with lower DHT it seems.

I was hoping that if you drop DHT , the muting mechanism for the AR goes down, and then when DHT rises , it downregulates the number of androgen receptors.


Read Jack17 thread, he takes duta , and does not even feel it , meaning that the problem does not have to do with DHT at all.

I think it has to do with testosterone.


Too much DHT causes AR to be shut down, and it shuts down ARs where testosterone is. and not DHT.

 

[Rid]

Coconut oil is anti fungal, and I think this is how it works.

he was not using coconut oil, he was eating actual slices of coconut

 

[Helen]

he was not using coconut oil, he was eating actual slices of coconut

that is even better, Coconut is very high in copper and histidine, and potassium, and all the things, needed/

I was hoping that if we slowly come off finasteride, it will have time to downregulate AR levels and then slowly body can live with higher DHT levels.

But it is more than that it seems, Jack 17 is using SamE and this pushes potassium into the cell, and speeds up the metabolism

when metabolism speeds up , DHT falls automatically, and testosteone and estrogen rise.

 

[Helen]

@Rid I just posted this since the topic was posted by Pfstinks, who was trying this route now for many many months.

We do know that if you lower DHT you feel better. and that matches the theory of overexpressed AR.

Since when his DHT goes back up he crashes. Body got used to living in finasteride body chemistry.

So when DHT goes back up and also allopregnenolone goes back up ( 2 problems ) not just DHT.

Then it could be a problem with Gaba and AR receptor, or even progesterone receptor.


Also I was thinking, may be finasteride since it inhibits only certain alpha reductases , not all of them, creates an imbalance between them

and may be dutasteride which inhibits all of them can even them out. and then you slowly come off dutasteride.

Not sure if this will ever work, and this could be super dangerous.

thus we are still looking at folks who are trying this route.


but in my opinion, the problems is with the zinc finger part of the AR

and thus when you lower DHT, zinc finger goes back in , and TESTOSTERONE works. since zinc is crucial for protein synthesis.


and if the AR is overexpressed in DHT sensitive tissues, since body lived with low DHT for a long time.

then after you go off the drug, DHT goes up and zinc finger gets lost, thus we see high zinc in a lot of hairtests

and since AR transcriptional regulation is the same for all ARs, then the ARs for testosterone simply don't work.

 

[Rid]

that is even better, Coconut is very high in copper and histidine, and potassium, and all the things, needed/

I was hoping that if we slowly come off finasteride, it will have time to downregulate AR levels and then slowly body can live with higher DHT levels.

But it is more than that it seems, Jack 17 is using SamE and this pushes potassium into the cell, and speeds up the metabolism

when metabolism speeds up , DHT falls automatically, and testosteone and estrogen rise.

interesting. my first sustained recovery was after using Cyest+histidine and I got everything back, including hair loss, oiliness and drive, but I felt like I just hit the other side of the spectrum, too much oil, hairloss, too horny. I was loving it, but it was obvious I still wasn't balanced, just on the other end. lost the effects after taking minox some months later. I still get benefits from taking cyst+histidine as you rec'd back then, but it's effects aren't as pronounced. I hear b6 can help with that, but I'm not sure it's working.

 

[Helen]

interesting. my first sustained recovery was after using Cyest+histidine and I got everything back, including hair loss, oiliness and drive, but I felt like I just hit the other side of the spectrum, too much oil, hairloss, too horny. I was loving it, but it was obvious I still wasn't balanced, just on the other end. lost the effects after taking minox some months later. I still get benefits from taking cyst+histidine as you rec'd back then, but it's effects aren't as pronounced. I hear b6 can help with that, but I'm not sure it's working.

of course you would feel another side of it, since if the number of ARs is big, then if you open up the zinc finger, you get too much DHT action, and you have to deal with it.

 

[Rid]

@Rid I just posted this since the topic was posted by Pfstinks, who was trying this route now for many many months.

We do know that if you lower DHT you feel better. and that matches the theory of overexpressed AR.

Since when his DHT goes back up he crashes. Body got used to living in finasteride body chemistry.

So when DHT goes back up and also allopregnenolone goes back up ( 2 problems ) not just DHT.

Then it could be a problem with Gaba and AR receptor, or even progesterone receptor.


Also I was thinking, may be finasteride since it inhibits only certain alpha reductases , not all of them, creates an imbalance between them

and may be dutasteride which inhibits all of them can even them out. and then you slowly come off dutasteride.

Not sure if this will ever work, and this could be super dangerous.

thus we are still looking at folks who are trying this route.


but in my opinion, the problems is with the zinc finger part of the AR

and thus when you lower DHT, zinc finger goes back in , and TESTOSTERONE works. since zinc is crucial for protein synthesis.


and if the AR is overexpressed in DHT sensitive tissues, since body lived with low DHT for a long time.

then after you go off the drug, DHT goes up and zinc finger gets lost, thus we see high zinc in a lot of hairtests

and since AR transcriptional regulation is the same for all ARs, then the ARs for testosterone simply don't work.

well to add a few of the recoveries I remember that may have to deal with some interaction on AR/DHT:

Multiple recoveries due to cycling tomato juice
Multiple recoveries due to cycle progesterone/preg
Seen a couple on reddit/Body building forums (you linked one) where people believed they were cured by properly "tapering off" of finasteride correctly, instead of "incorrectly tapering off" as they believed originally caused their problems.
We have seen many, esp in SSRI camp, improve from licorice root, but I know there's a lot going on there. Myself included.

And essentially CD's protocol could fall under this as we know

 

[Rid]

of course you would feel another side of it, since if the number of ARs is big, then if you open up the zinc finger, you get too much DHT action, and you have to deal with it.

so, is larger doses of cyst/hist needed for me to open up zinc finger again? seems to have closed after minox crashed me.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I had some good days on tomato juice (lycopene). But none of that stuck in the long term. Definitely worth trying.

I have a problem with nightshades though they give me anxiety like potatoes and tomatoes.

BTW one of the guys on reddit who tapered off, he still had weak orgasm for example and other problems.

 

[Helen]

well to add a few of the recoveries I remember that may have to deal with some interaction on AR/DHT:

Multiple recoveries due to cycling tomato juice
Multiple recoveries due to cycle progesterone/preg
Seen a couple on reddit/Body building forums (you linked one) where people believed they were cured by properly "tapering off" of finasteride correctly, instead of "incorrectly tapering off" as they believed originally caused their problems.
We have seen many, esp in SSRI camp, improve from licorice root, but I know there's a lot going on there. Myself included.

And essentially CD's protocol could fall under this as we know

yes, you talk about all those cases, who are not cured, now. That bodybuilder forum guy we posted all those here, and discussed it. he is not cured.

Cycling progesterone, is good, since progesterone retains potassium in the body, and thus DHT falls down later on, without even taking anything.

licorice root increases cortisol


CD protocol feeds DHT

We are looking at people here who are trying all of this here. we have people who are trying to come off fin., and duta,

so far we have the author of this thread. with high DHT, and he has been doing this for a long time. now . and it does not seem to stick for some reason.

 

[Helen]

@Rid people tend to post in the moments when they feel better, that they are cured, when they still take stuff. and then months later to figure out

that nothing changed.

Same happened to the bodybuilder guy, same happend to the guy tandenout posted about, same happened with the author of this thread.


I was hoping that you can just come off finasteride slowly and it would allow time to downregulate the ARs

but there is something else missing


Cdnuts just forced DHT in and slowly downregulated ARs that way. lost his hair doing that.


Look at Mario Vitaly , and other people who feel zero symtpoms on pyroluria treatment.

why?

because if DHT is too senstive, then zinc finger and NADPH close down.


you feed NADPH, this causes more zinc losses, you take zinc it causes NADPH to close down.

that is why people take active b1, plus zinc, active b1 increases 5 alpha reductase, and zinc increases zinc finger, and you force the downregulation of the protein levels.

with b1 you increase 5 AR and also you increase zinc finger, the strength of the AR transmission. and you force the body to downregulate the AR proteins over time.

 

[Rid]

@Rid people tend to post in the moments when they feel better, that they are cured, when they still take stuff. and then months later to figure out that nothing changed.

ok so, in my case with my first recovery with cys/hist, you say I opened up my zinc finger and received the subsequent DHT action, and I'm assuming you mean I was on the other end because I have a lot of AR receptors due to desensitization. Would opening zinc finger again while having light AR inhibition prove to put someone in a more balanced state? I know you can swing out of this easily again, as I did, but it seems like that would be the ultimate crutch if you can hold that. I was able to have a prolonged recovery in that state.

I know system balancing is how you would probably rec opening up zinc finger again, but if I can do it with just cyst/hist once, why wouldn't that work again? different imbalance somewhere now?

 

[Admiral]

Zinc must be the most tried supplement among the PFS community. Pretty much 95% does bad on it. Then again, I'm sure few tried it with active B's.