PFS almost cured

[ncsugrad]

Honestly from my perspective for people that wake up feeling great every day, digestion is great etc but have sexual pfs- you can try some things like zinc finger, copper gcu amino type strategies that have been mentioned here.

Ok, I’ll look more into those. It’s just tough to figure out what to do when people say “zinc finger” and I don’t even know what that is beyond what I learn googling it. Then it’s like, does that mean I need more zinc or less zinc? More copper or less copper?

Then there’s the pile of amino acids I’ve tried with varying but limited results. What’s GCU?

It’s just all a bunch of acronyms to me with not a lot of specifcs

I guess that’s the problem with PFS right now until it’s better understood

 

[Stud]

Same thing happened to @Stud on high doses of dht, if I remember correctly.

yes horrible mood (intense irritabilitty and agression), crazy apathy and no libido , no anxiety though absolutly none in no situations although paranoid wich might be seen as a form of anxiety

 

[bruschi11]

Ok, I’ll look more into those. It’s just tough to figure out what to do when people say “zinc finger” and I don’t even know what that is beyond what I learn googling it. Then it’s like, does that mean I need more zinc or less zinc? More copper or less copper?

Then there’s the pile of amino acids I’ve tried with varying but limited results. What’s GCU?

It’s just all a bunch of acronyms to me with not a lot of specifcs

I guess that’s the problem with PFS right now until it’s better understood

There’s a nice little search bar on the top right here of this website. Probably best place to find that information is up there.

This stuff was mostly talked about at end of 2017 and early 18.

 

[HerrFisch]

There’s a nice little search bar on the top right here of this website. Probably best place to find that information is up there.

This stuff was mostly talked about at end of 2017 and early 18.

I know Im hating on it a lot but that search engine on this website is really bad.
I copied so much into text files just to search how I want.

 

[TubZy]

Ok, I’ll look more into those. It’s just tough to figure out what to do when people say “zinc finger” and I don’t even know what that is beyond what I learn googling it. Then it’s like, does that mean I need more zinc or less zinc? More copper or less copper?

Then there’s the pile of amino acids I’ve tried with varying but limited results. What’s GCU?

It’s just all a bunch of acronyms to me with not a lot of specifcs

I guess that’s the problem with PFS right now until it’s better understood

Click on the hackstasis wiki link in my signature. It will give you all the info

 

[ncsugrad]

Click on the hackstasis wiki link in my signature. It will give you all the info

Will do, thanks

 

[Jack17]

So, there's a lot of talk here... but are there suggestions on what to actually try?

I tried 0.1mg of fin about a month ago.. I actually felt pretty horny maybe 4-5 days later.. I remember waking up one morning and the sheet rubbing against my 'you know what' felt amazing, like it hadn't been in quite a while.. that eventually faded after another week or so but I had a few good days.

Maybe a week after that (2-3 weeks after originally trying some) I took another crumb of fin, 0.1mg or so.. but never got the same result. If anything, I'm as bad as I've ever been. Very little libido, sexual 'wow' sensation is just gone right now.

I have fin, dut, progesterone, and pretty much every vitamin/supplement that's been mentioned on this forum lately at my disposal. Along with r-andro, tribulus, progesterone, etc.

Any suggestions on things to try? Or should I wait it out on nothing for a few weeks?

IMO, I think you should take 1/4 tab and then wait 1-2 weeks. You could consider taking with SAM e. I’m still doing well on avodart low dose. But when I started I took 1/4 tab and felt good like you. Either the next dose or the one after I took like a crumb. It didn’t do anything and then felt worse 5-6 days later. I took larger dose, 1/4 tab and felt better. ( I did larger dose bc I really wanted to test this theory) You may be taking too small of a dose too infrequently in my opinion. Have you checked your dht level? This protocol may only work for higher dht levels, but who knows! Good luck!

 

[ncsugrad]

IMO, I think you should take 1/4 tab and then wait 1-2 weeks. You could consider taking with SAM e. I’m still doing well on avodart low dose. But when I started I took 1/4 tab and felt good like you. Either the next dose or the one after I took like a crumb. It didn’t do anything and then felt worse 5-6 days later. I took larger dose, 1/4 tab and felt better. ( I did larger dose bc I really wanted to test this theory) You may be taking too small of a dose too infrequently in my opinion. Have you checked your dht level? This protocol may only work for higher dht levels, but who knows! Good luck!

Thanks--maybe it was too little to have the same affect, I'm not sure. I had DHT checked once and it was actually on the higher end of normal, which was weird (that it was still in the normal range). Total test was high, free test was low. That was several months ago though--I am considering getting more tests done soon just to see how I am. I really feel like there's something funky going on Estrogen wise lately. I'm not sure why I think that, but that's just what it feels like to me

 

[Helen]

IMO, I think you should take 1/4 tab and then wait 1-2 weeks. You could consider taking with SAM e. I’m still doing well on avodart low dose. But when I started I took 1/4 tab and felt good like you. Either the next dose or the one after I took like a crumb. It didn’t do anything and then felt worse 5-6 days later. I took larger dose, 1/4 tab and felt better. ( I did larger dose bc I really wanted to test this theory) You may be taking too small of a dose too infrequently in my opinion. Have you checked your dht level? This protocol may only work for higher dht levels, but who knows! Good luck!

PFS stinks has been doing this for almost a year. that is why I posted his update. Nothing really changed. He also felt good in some intervals.

I think it may be has to do with Sam-e, since Same speeds up metabolism. since adrenaline puts potassium into the cell, same as progesterone, puts potassium into the cell.

and this way your DHT falls, as it is and estrogen rises since metabolism is faster.

 

[Troy]

PFS stinks has been doing this for almost a year. that is why I posted his update. Nothing really changed. He also felt good in some intervals.

I think it may be has to do with Sam-e, since Same speeds up metabolism. since adrenaline puts potassium into the cell, same as progesterone, puts potassium into the cell.

and this way your DHT falls, as it is and estrogen rises since metabolism is faster.

Is this why when I took potassium it improved me?

 

[Helen]

Is this why when I took potassium it improved me?

yes, but you are a different case. your cortisol was high, and it was wasting your potassium,

people with high DHT usually have low adrenaline, so insulin is pushing their potassium into the cell instead of adrenaline, thus they create too much NADPH, and thus their DHT is high. Usually these people have high potassium in blood, lower sodium. and low cortisol

 

[HerrFisch]

people with high DHT usually have low adrenaline, so insulin is pushing their potassium into the cell instead of adrenaline, thus they create too much NADPH, and thus their DHT is high. Usually these people have high potassium in blood, lower sodium. and low cortisol

?

because DHT is a stress hormones, and increases aldosterone and lowers potassium, which then increases adrenaline.

Something I dont understand is,
Aldosterone goes up to retain Sodium.
Progesterone should retain Potassium.
OK.

But then hairtest people say high Sodium equals high Aldosterone. And high Potassium is high Cortisol.
How does that make sense?

Low Potassium on hairtest is high Progesterone.

SO it only makes sense to say low sodium (not high) is high Aldosterone.

Am I stoOpid ?

 

[Helen]

?


Something I dont understand is,
Aldosterone goes up to retain Sodium.
Progesterone should retain Potassium.
OK.

But then hairtest people say high Sodium equals high Aldosterone. And high Potassium is high Cortisol.
How does that make sense?

Low Potassium on hairtest is high Progesterone.

SO it only makes sense to say low sodium (not high) is high Aldosterone.

Am I stoOpid ?

hairtest sodium and potassium are cortisol and adrenaline mostly


when cortisol is high , it makes potassium go into the hair. and you can have it low in blood

progesterone just retains potassium in the artery.

and usually is raised when the body has trouble keeping potassium in the cell.
like lack of insulin or lack of adrenaline,

so potassium leaks out.

This is my understanding

 

[HerrFisch]

hairtest sodium and potassium are cortisol and adrenaline mostly


when cortisol is high , it makes potassium go into the hair. and you can have it low in blood

progesterone just retains potassium in the artery.

and usually is raised when the body has trouble keeping potassium in the cell.
like lack of insulin or lack of adrenaline,

so potassium leaks out.

This is my understanding

ok yes agree, but aldosterone?

ARL literally says Sodium levels correlate with aldosterone levels.

Another point that doesn’t make sense in the scenario, sodium is lowering aldosterone.
ARL says slow oxidizer feel better on extra salt if they have low sodium levels.
Makes sense if low sodium is high aldosterone.
But if low sodium is low aldosterone it’s making no sense x2. Like if fast oxidizer have. high sodium they need more sodium?

It just makes no sense that 2 hormones that both retain those minerals are one on the high and one in the low range of excretion in the hair.

Like you said high sodium is high adrenaline does make sense though.

 

[Helen]

ok yes agree, but aldosterone?

ARL literally says Sodium levels correlate with aldosterone levels.

Another point that doesn’t make sense in the scenario, sodium is lowering aldosterone.
ARL says slow oxidizer feel better on extra salt if they have low sodium levels.
Makes sense if low sodium is high aldosterone.
But if low sodium is low aldosterone it’s making no sense x2. Like if fast oxidizer have. high sodium they need more sodium?

It just makes no sense that 2 hormones that both retain those minerals are one on the high and one in the low range of excretion in the hair.

Like you said high sodium is high adrenaline does make sense though.

fast oxidizer has good adrenaline system, which pushes potassium in the cell, and has good potassium and thyroid levels. so

in fast oxidizer andrenaline coexist with high aldosterone.

Slow oxidizer does not have aldosterone since every thing is in progesterone to retain potassium since potassium is leaking from the cell.

If methylation works properly it makes both adrenaline and thyroid hormone and thus pushes potassium into the cell and speeds up metabolism, and then you need both sodium and adrenaline and cortisol to support this speed, since sodium somewhat substitutes for adrenaline.

 

[hairsuit]

So, the question is this....... are we saying that it is a receptor issue, regardless of high or low DHT? Yes going back on finasteride as @PFStinks and @Jack17 have done may just be a patch, but if it resensitized everything again, and we then properly titrated down off of Fin again, isn’t that the win? I ask only because the first time I quit Fin, that’s what I did, and everything was great. Second time, cold turkey, nightmare. If all we have to do is get back on Fin, feel better, then get off the proper way, is that what we should be aiming for? And then, once off of Fin, balance out without the receptors being overloaded. I’m sure I’m not getting this right, but.......

 

[Helen]

So, the question is this....... are we saying that it is a receptor issue, regardless of high or low DHT? Yes going back on finasteride as @PFStinks and @Jack17 have done may just be a patch, but if it resensitized everything again, and we then properly titrated down off of Fin again, isn’t that the win? I ask only because the first time I quit Fin, that’s what I did, and everything was great. Second time, cold turkey, nightmare. If all we have to do is get back on Fin, feel better, then get off the proper way, is that what we should be aiming for? And then, once off of Fin, balance out without the receptors being overloaded. I’m sure I’m not getting this right, but.......

this is what Pfsstinks has been trying. and it did not work in his case.

that was my idea is that if someone goes back on fin and then slowly comes off. then the body will have time to downregulate protein levels of the receptor.

meaning make it less sensitive.

when you come off cold turkey, then the receptor is super sensitive and that is why it gets shut down , since in places where DHT is, it is super sensitive,

and the brain shuts down ARs , DHT works and works fine,

what does not work is testosterone. since it is the same ARs which got shut down.


so in DHT sensitive tissues, when you took FIN, the ARs became super sensitive.

and in testostorone sensitive tissues, ARs are normal. since you never were down on testosterone on fin.

so when DHT goes up, body senses too much DHT action, and puts on a lock on AR to lower its action, this is beyond the receptor.

so this basically lowers DHT action to normal. but lowers testosterone action to below normal. since ARs were not overexpressed in cells with testosterone.



This is how Cdnuts got cured, he cycled R andro, and slowly downregulated DHT receptors, and testosterone started to work.


But I think people have 2 problems here, one with DHT and one with gaba.

This is why different hormone levels.

 

[ncsugrad]

this is what Pfsstinks has been trying. and it did not work in his case.

that was my idea is that if someone goes back on fin and then slowly comes off. then the body will have time to downregulate protein levels of the receptor.

meaning make it less sensitive.

when you come off cold turkey, then the receptor is super sensitive and that is why it gets shut down , since in places where DHT is, it is super sensitive,

and the brain shuts down ARs , DHT works and works fine,

what does not work is testosterone. since it is the same ARs which got shut down.


so in DHT sensitive tissues, when you took FIN, the ARs became super sensitive.

and in testostorone sensitive tissues, ARs are normal. since you never were down on testosterone on fin.

so when DHT goes up, body senses too much DHT action, and puts on a lock on AR to lower its action, this is beyond the receptor.

so this basically lowers DHT action to normal. but lowers testosterone action to below normal. since ARs were not overexpressed in cells with testosterone.



This is how Cdnuts got cured, he cycled R andro, and slowly downregulated DHT receptors, and testosterone started to work.


But I think people have 2 problems here, one with DHT and one with gaba.

This is why different hormone levels.

are you saying we all have 2 issues, or that some people have DHT issues and some have gaba issuds?

 

[hairsuit]

But @Helen should we full on go back on Fin. Like .25mg everyday? Get get back up to speed for a month or two. Get our bodies back on the low DHt environment. If that works, then try weening off. Seems @PFStinks was taking it every week or two, no?

 

[Helen]

But @Helen should we full on go back on Fin. Like .25mg everyday? Get get back up to speed for a month or two. Get our bodies back on the low DHt environment. If that works, then try weening off. Seems @PFStinks was taking it every week or two, no?

no he started to take it more often and then slowly tried to ween off by increasing the period in between doses.

that was the idea, to supress DHT, so zinc finger goes back in, and then slowly go off of it. by increasing the period between dosages.

so the body has time to downregulate AR protein levels.


Avodart suppresses you for weeks, and has 5 week half life.

So coming off avodart is slow unlike coming off propecia.