PFS and Post SSRI

[Shadow]

Ok guys, I wanna propose something here. Im not going to explain the whys because it would be pointless. But my main reasons to this are:
- There are weird symptoms that are exactly the same and arent known in any other condition.
- Some people are thinking too much inside the box. Let me explain, Fin is sold to treat MPB and BPH, both affected by DHT, so people think that only DHT is affected and build ideas around it. SSRIs are the same with sert block. We know very well that are thing far worse that are affected.
- Again the box, only the sexual sides are focused.

Lets assume that we know one and only one thing about PFS and Post SSRI. They are the SAME THING.
This said, some things hold true:
- It can happen fast
- Affect both genders
- The problems go beyond the sexual area

What they have in common that could be causing the problem?

Fin is a 5ar blocker and SSRIs are known to mess up with 3aHSD. I posted this article some time ago here https://hackstasis.com/threads/neurosteroids-pfs-pssd-and-pas.314/:
Effects of Fungicides on Rat's Neurosteroid Synthetic Enzymes

The homeostasis of neurosteroids including ALLO and DIOL depends on the catalysis of their biosynthetic enzymes, 5α-Red1 and 3α-HSD, as well as the metabolizing enzyme RDH2. Since 5α-Red1 is the rate-limiting step for neurosteroid formation, this inhibition by TEB and TRI is critical for the production of neurosteroids. Indeed, evidence shows that these fungicides can affect brain function. Rats after exposure to triadimefon developed a deficit in spatial learning and reference memory [21]. Rats after perinatal exposure to tebuconazole produced neurobehavioral deficits and neuropathology [22]. Triadimefon also disrupted the transporter of extracellular dopamine, dihydroxyphenylacetic acid, homovanillic acid, and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid in adult rat's striatum [23]. Goldfish after acute and chronic exposure to VCZ developed dysfunction of neuroendocrine regulation of reproduction [24]. Therefore, the disruption of neurosteroid biosynthesis by these fungicides could lead to neurological dysfunction.

Btw. Arent RDH the ones affected by Accutane?

@Helen @TubZy

I wanted to hear what you could think @Area-1255 , if Im correct you are more inclined to the sert theory. But you have a ton of knowledge and would be nice to read what could you think .

 

[Jaxx]

Something that got my attention is that one endocriniologist said he treated PSSD succesfully with Gnrh hormone therapy. So-far most PSSD cures were focused on serotonine/dopamine

 

[raven]

Something that got my attention is that one endocriniologist said he treated PSSD succesfully with Gnrh hormone therapy. So-far most PSSD cures were focused on serotonine/dopamine

Gnrh is responsible for LH and FSH right? We pretty much all have low to very low LH and FSH

 

[Jaxx]

Gnrh is responsible for LH and FSH right? We pretty much all have low to very low LH and FSH

Yes, seems to be related to LH/FSH, although most hormone values of people ive seen with PSSD are within range. (Although you can wonder if thats the whole story)
I recently found an article talking about depression as serotonine insensitivity, similar to Diabetes type II. Interesting concept, as it is often used here with progesterone/estrogen as well.

 

[Shadow]

Please stick to the topic proposal. And note some things:

-> I didnt used the PSSD term because you know very well that thing go beyond this. Just look at SurvivalAntidepressants forum.
-> There are 100ths of topics discussing serotonin and dompamine in PSSDForum already.

 

[Helen]

Ok guys, I wanna propose something here. Im not going to explain the whys because it would be pointless. But my main reasons to this are:
- There are weird symptoms that are exactly the same and arent known in any other condition.
- Some people are thinking too much inside the box. Let me explain, Fin is sold to treat MPB and BPH, both affected by DHT, so people think that only DHT is affected and build ideas around it. SSRIs are the same with sert block. We know very well that are thing far worse that are affected.
- Again the box, only the sexual sides are focused.

Lets assume that we know one and only one thing about PFS and Post SSRI. They are the SAME THING.
This said, some things hold true:
- It can happen fast
- Affect both genders
- The problems go beyond the sexual area

What they have in common that could be causing the problem?

Fin is a 5ar blocker and SSRIs are known to mess up with 3aHSD. I posted this article some time ago here https://hackstasis.com/threads/neurosteroids-pfs-pssd-and-pas.314/:
Effects of Fungicides on Rat's Neurosteroid Synthetic Enzymes


Btw. Arent RDH the ones affected by Accutane?

@Helen @TubZy

I wanted to hear what you could think @Area-1255 , if Im correct you are more inclined to the sert theory. But you have a ton of knowledge and would be nice to read what could you think .

No one is focused on DHT and no one even talks about DHT here. both SSRI and FIN effects serotonin acetylcholine system the same.

 

[Helen]

Fin and SSRI effect PH system, this is why you see many people with mental problems. I would assume it would be 2 groups here with low high acetylcholine.

High acetylcholine stops breathing drive, you retain CO2. You have panic , heart problems, you dont sleep. On the hairtest it looks like lower potassium high calcium, and sodium higher than magnesium or equal even if both can be low.

Since drive is impaired you get very low oxygen inside of you. this causes even more problems and symptoms. Breathing ozone helps the symptoms

To try to snap this back, people can try acetazolamide which will increase CO2. ( in the moment it will make most symptoms worse) Also hydrogen water will force downregulation of acetylcholine since it will decrease PH and the body will to increase breathing drive.

These are cures. now to feel better which is not a cure, you can try alkaline water or zinc along with b vitamins.( emergency situation)

Now low acetylcholine people. Can do good on zinc manganese b1 b2 b3

 

[freeflow]

No one is focused on DHT and no one even talks about DHT here. both SSRI and FIN effects serotonin acetylcholine system the same.

I know for sure pfs can be cured by fasting but is it true to Pssd too?

 

[wuf]

I know for sure pfs can be cured by fasting but is it true to Pssd too?

How was your Randro cycle?
Did you finally get any improvements from it?

 

[Helen]

@Shadow People need to concentrate on the balance between serotonin and acetylcholine system
there are several possibilities here.

Panic disorder which is why people take SSRIs for. Usually is not caused by low serotonin but by high acetylcholine. This is why SSRIs are used, since SSRIs spare tryptophan and tryptophan increases breaking down of acetylcholine.

So SSRI or serotonin will upregulate the enzyme acetylcholinesterase. Fin acts by either blocking or agonizing progesterone, if fin acts as blocking progesterone action, then it will also upregulate the enzyme acetylcholinesterase. Since progesterone is what blocks acetylcholine receptor, so if progesterone action is blocked by fin then acetylcholine will be more active at the receptor and acetylcholinesterase will be upregulated.


So basically it is high low acetylcholine. Same happens with POIS people. Some are helped by b1 and all symptoms go away. and some get more POIS with b1.

 

[Helen]

@ Shadow And no symptoms are not exactly the same. 2 groups have completely different symptoms. Same as POIS people. they do get crash from orgasm but 2 groups have very different crashes, one crash with histamine reactions sweating , heart problems, and another crash with muscle spams no histamine. And those 2 groups react to the same substances totally opposite ways


I think people on this forum dont realize it , but most people here have POIS. POIS is the crash after orgasm. I think like 80% have it here. And they dont associate their going up and down with it. they think it is PFS, where it reality it is caused by orgasms.

 

[Helen]

I know for sure pfs can be cured by fasting but is it true to Pssd too?

I never dealt with PSSD yet. I am waiting on barbar, if he does good on ARL good, if not I will try to fix him myself.

 

[Helen]

@barbaar You need to do couple more cycles of ARL , if not good, then contact me and we will try to deal with PSSD directly thru skype. if succesful then others can repeat what you did.

 

[Helen]

@Shadow I know you are in a bad position and you dont try many things. But unless you test everything you wont know what to take. Or you need to experiment.

Basically if you want to increase serotonin sensitivity you need to block acetylcholine. It is parasympathetic systems, so they go back and forth.

Forskolin increases break down of acetylcholine. But on the snap back it will have you with even higher acetylcholine.

Atropine blocks acetylcholine and on the snap back it will have lower acetylcholine and higher serotonin action.

 

[Helen]

Something that got my attention is that one endocriniologist said he treated PSSD succesfully with Gnrh hormone therapy. So-far most PSSD cures were focused on serotonine/dopamine

Grnh is directly connected to acetylcholine
The alpha-7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor is involved in a direct inhibitory effect of nicotine on GnRH release: In vitro studies. - PubMed - NCBI

so is progesterone which blocks acetylcholine receptors

 

[Helen]

@Shadow do you have symptoms of low or high acetylcholine. Low is dry mouth, poor memory. no sweating. High, sweating drooling , runny gut with inflammation.

 

[MNK99]

They are definitely not exactly the same.
I had both....
One made me suicidal, one made me crazy as hell and tired later (I mean other effects not just PSSD... mania, etc).
The other made me dumb as hell temporarily and bedridden for a time. Both, probably made ADHD worse... ideally not permanently.

Insane excessive sweating, facially post effexor even in minus 40 Canada winters, cold as hell after finasteride (when skinny I get cold but not like I was 3 mo ago it was crazy). Usually I run hot.

 

[Nina]

@ Shadow And no symptoms are not exactly the same. 2 groups have completely different symptoms. Same as POIS people. they do get crash from orgasm but 2 groups have very different crashes, one crash with histamine reactions sweating , heart problems, and another crash with muscle spams no histamine. And those 2 groups react to the same substances totally opposite ways


I think people on this forum dont realize it , but most people here have POIS. POIS is the crash after orgasm. I think like 80% have it here. And they dont associate their going up and down with it. they think it is PFS, where it reality it is caused by orgasms.

I have these symptoms when i get under a lot of stress (sweating, heart palpilations, insomnia, crazy histamine reactions) Is this the same mechanism as POIS? Downregulated cortisol receptor?

Also tried choline supplements once. Caused bad inflammation for me.

 

[noprop]

I know for sure pfs can be cured by fasting but is it true to Pssd too?

How that? Autophagy (Dr.Eric Berg)?

 

[D4n]

Symptoms of High Acetylcholine << a good list of high acetylcholine symptoms here