Post AI Syndrome

[jaydoe]

Very few of you may know of my situation at this point as I've posted my story on T Nation, Excelmale, SolvePfs, and Swole Source.

Brief Background

Without going into detail, I have severe estrogen insensitivity probably from crashing my estrogen to ZERO. I've been on TRT for almost 4 years and have used Anastrozole that entire time without any issues, it was a miracle drug for me as it kept my E in a perfect range. But in May, I altered my gene expression somehow. It wasn't that bad in May/June. However, every single time I tried to fix it (by lowering estrogen since I thought it was too high since I was holding water), I'd crash my estrogen then it'd rise back up and I'd get further desensitization. I did this over 12 times.

After months of dealing with this I understand the situation and finally know how to not make myself worse
1. I cannot have fluctuations in my E2. If it goes up I get permanently worse.
2. I cannot take ANYTHING that interacts with the ER. I've taken Horny Goat Weed which contains phytoestrogens, lost erections for 3 days, smoke marijuana which contains phytoestrogens, drink beers which contains phytoestrogens, you get the point
3. I absofuckinglutely cannot take a SERM. I wasn't half bad until I took Nolvadex in late august. This made my symptoms 10x worse. I couldn't get an erection for 2 weeks. I didn't attribute this to Nolvadex, so I month later I took clomid and the same thing happened, which is when I realized I cant take SERMS since they interact heavily with the ER.

So now I'm on 29mg T Cyp IM EOD, this keeps my blood levels stable and I actually feel pretty normal mentally. Except I have mild anhedonia, low libido, low drive, and not much emotion.

My symptoms currently: Extremely rapid diffuse hairloss, low libido, weak erections with extremely good sensitivity and orgasms, dry, oilless, and unhealthy looking skin, less vasculature, get cold easily but with normal body temp, slow nail and hair growth, dry mouth, lower blood pressure, cannot get a pump anymore in the gym, poor circulation, horrible recovery from workouts and can't get stronger, loss of personality, some anxiety, water retention (very odd I know), nipples dont get puffy at all anymore, cold sweats

When my E2 goes up or I take a SERM, these symptoms get amplified 10x and I get extreme anxiety, agitation, depersonalization, lower body temp, loss of appetite, muscle wastage, and depression.

There have only been 4 other reports of my condition. Simeoni & lowE2sucks (excelmale), QuantumFaith + Konflict (solvePFS)

I've got a plethora of labwork and nothing looks 'off' or abnormal for me. I'm a nurse so believe me I know what I'm talking about. Obviously, this is the same case with androgen insensitive PFS guys.

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Now I need some help. I fully believe this is reversible but I'm not sure how to do it. I have a couple theories as to why this happened. Epigenetic hypermethylation & deacetylation of ER, altered MAPK signaling in the estrogen dependent tissues, or permanent loss of PR (dictates sensitivity of ER)

MAPK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPK/ERK_pathway

Permanent loss of PR which affects estrogen sensitivity: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0018506X81900180?via%3Dihub

I'm pretty confused about these protocols on here and how they work. I have no idea why you guys are SPRMs to treat PFS/Accutane.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be a possibility for me? Or should I just hang tight until the Baylor study is released as my symptoms aren't "unbearable" but they do fucking suck considering what I used to be before this which was completely different. Raging libido, huge full muscles, thick and luscious hair, veiny, oily skin, great personality, amazing erections.

 

[wuf]

how do you know it is estrogen insensibility?

 

[jaydoe]

Well its not androgen insensitivity. I've taken Saw Palmetto for a week once, but I don't have any genital numbness, fatigue, exercise intolerance, no facial bone or subcutaneous fat loss, no GI issues, no depression, no prostate pain. And I still have excessive beard and body hair growth, great energy, really oily face and scalp (but not body), respond the same to alcohol, can sleep fine. I still have sexual thoughts.

I only have low estrogen symptoms. It's pretty obvious. It all started when I crashed my estrogen for a long period of time. Even when my E2 was 89pg/ml (<29) I had no high estrogen symptoms. I usually get high estrogen symptoms when my E2 is as low as 25pg/ml.

And I've only gotten worse when my E2 raises. Not my T like Awor gets.

 

[mattyb]

Welcome to hackstasis and thanks for joining!

Trans-resveratrol is an estrogen receptor sensitizer. Might be a good option if you suspect it's estrogen insensitivity.

 

[wuf]

Well its not androgen insensitivity. I've taken Saw Palmetto for a week once, but I don't have any genital numbness, fatigue, exercise intolerance, no facial bone or subcutaneous fat loss, no GI issues, no depression, no prostate pain. And I still have excessive beard and body hair growth, great energy, really oily face and scalp (but not body), respond the same to alcohol, can sleep fine. I still have sexual thoughts.

I only have low estrogen symptoms. It's pretty obvious. It all started when I crashed my estrogen for a long period of time. Even when my E2 was 89pg/ml (<29) I had no high estrogen symptoms. I usually get high estrogen symptoms when my E2 is as low as 25pg/ml.

And I've only gotten worse when my E2 raises. Not my T like Awor gets.

So I dont get what are your symptoms ?
So you think you have estrogens insensitivity because you have estrogens at 25pg/ml?

 

[jaydoe]

No matter what my E2 is my symptoms do not change. My current E2 is probably a little above 30pg/mL.

Symptoms are outlined in my first post.

Mattyb, do you have any literature supporting this? I've seen this idea tossed around here Im really interested. The literature I've found is that resveratrol is an ER agonist. And like I said, anything that interacts with the ER can make me worse, I'm scared it'll hinder my condition

 

[mattyb]

Well an ER agonist is essentially the same thing as a sensitizer. Dozens of studies here: https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=resveratrol+estrogen+receptor&btnG=&oq=resv

I imagine any process of re-sensitization will always make you worse in the short term. I don't see how you could avoid that, since estrogen production takes time to modulate to receptor sensitivity. I don't think there is a process you could find that wouldn't be a rocky road to recovery. You could try ultra-low doses of an ER agonist and slowly up the dosages for a few weeks before cutting it off so that your system has time to adjust to the increasing sensitivity, but that's wishful thinking probably.