Potassium + membrane potential + electrolyte

[Regen8]

Can anyone cast some light on the mechanism of this electrolyte product Protocel? It works via electrolyte interactions and its ingredients are: Tetrahydroxyquinone, Rhodizonic Acid, Sodium, Potassium, Croconic Acid, Triquinoyl, Pyrocatechol, Leuconic Acid, mineral and trace elements including Copper.

It’s claimed to be less toxic than aspirin and many people take it to manage a wide range of metabolic dysregulation.

It was inspired by the findings of Koch on redox reactions, the inventor had also worked with Koch.

From my research (without a biochemistry background) it seems that Tetrahydroxyquinone blocks complex 1 while Pyrocatechol blocks complex 3 - overall they reduce the membrane potential to 50MV and make the cells easy to dissolve and remove while the quinones are active (apparently the half-life is only 5 hours). Travis at rpf.com had a post on how increased membrane potential attracts K into the cell, so would reducing the membrane potential help to tank K in the cell and thereafter increase progesterone sensitivity?

Tetrahydroxyquinone was an old anti-cataract drug used to clean out senescent cells and @mattyb said it's good to clear out defective mitochondria. Would this be why Protocel is helping some people manage their cancers?

 

[mattyb]

Tetrahydroxyquinone was an old anti-cataract drug used to clean out senescent cells and @mattyb said it's good to clear out defective mitochondria. Would this be why Protocel is helping some people manage their cancers?

What? I never said that - I have never even heard of the substance. You must be mixing me up with someone else.

I just looked it up - what a beautiful chemical structure it has!

 

[Regen8]

Thank you for responding @mattyb. I should have broken up the sentence. I meant that you think it's good to clear out defective mitochondria (not about Tetrahydroxyquinone) based on your response to HerrFish: "It's not all about regulating "bad" mitochondria, but all mitochondria. Too many mitochondria is bad, very bad. Mitochondria are also more likely to be defective when there are too many of them (because the excessive ROS damages the mitochondria as well).

You can see how this would create a pretty horrible feedback loop to be stuck in. Metabolism in one tissue is too high, so the body lowers metabolism everywhere. But it can't lower it enough on it's own because we keep feeding it energy to consume. Low overall metabolism harms other tissues, making recovery impossible. Then we do things like eating that boost metabolism, and it makes us feels better but worsens primary symptoms. This cycles needs to be broken. Fasting can break this cycle, and then once mitochondria numbers are back to normal, we can start to do things to heal our lowered metabolism without risking relapse of primary inflammatory disease."

 

[Regen8]

I have been trying to understand how this product works. It seems to have the advantages of calorie restriction by reducing ATP production and yet at the same time the tetrahydroxyquinone seems to serve as a functional group that allows electrons to get withdrawn and not cause reductive stress on the cell if the cell is lacking good functional groups to manage excess nutrients. I don't have a biochemistry background and am struggling to understand how this functions. Tetrahydroxyquinone is a metabolite of inositol and seems to work like a battery that keeps energy going for the cell while it depletes excess nutrients and clears junk in the cell. I've been researching solutions to metabolic dysregulation ever since my mom got sick. Appreciate greatly your opinions on the synergy of the elements in Protocel.

 

[mattyb]

Thank you for responding @mattyb. I should have broken up the sentence. I meant that you think it's good to clear out defective mitochondria (not about Tetrahydroxyquinone) based on your response to HerrFish: "It's not all about regulating "bad" mitochondria, but all mitochondria. Too many mitochondria is bad, very bad. Mitochondria are also more likely to be defective when there are too many of them (because the excessive ROS damages the mitochondria as well).

You can see how this would create a pretty horrible feedback loop to be stuck in. Metabolism in one tissue is too high, so the body lowers metabolism everywhere. But it can't lower it enough on it's own because we keep feeding it energy to consume. Low overall metabolism harms other tissues, making recovery impossible. Then we do things like eating that boost metabolism, and it makes us feels better but worsens primary symptoms. This cycles needs to be broken. Fasting can break this cycle, and then once mitochondria numbers are back to normal, we can start to do things to heal our lowered metabolism without risking relapse of primary inflammatory disease."

Ah, okay. Makes sense - sorry for the mixup. I don't know much about this product but it does sound interesting. I'll have a look.

 

[Regen8]

@mattyb it’s my bad, so sorry for the sentence structure. I’m very grateful you could take a look and hazard a guess how it works.
Does an element like tetrahydroxyquinone take glycolysis at cytosol to oxphos at mitochondria or block it?

Tetrahydroxyquinone’s starting element is inositol which is insulin-sensitising. Would the form of a tetrahydroxyquinone negate inositol’s action or enhance it?

Does the hydroxy bit mean that it keeps hydroxyl radicals going in defective mitochondria until terminated or it stops hydroxyl radicals from rising?

Would the pyrocatechol element be harmful because it’s a catechol or beneficial like dopamine/serotonin?

The combination of potassium, sodium, copper, pyrocatechol and quinones seem like a balanced product to oxidise away junk elements so resources can go towards building new receptors rather than endless repairs. Useful for aged cells or overburdened livers.

But I could understand it all wrong as I don’t have scientific knowledge. Dr Wilson (who practices ARL sciences) recommends Protocel for cancer and prevention but does not explain how it works. The makers say it is non-toxic but the elements are so distilled from the original that I fear they would bypass regulations too much and ruin homeostasis. Would a very diluted almost homeopathic dose (like with methylene blue) be risky to try?

 

[mattyb]

Just thinking out loud, only took a quick look around.

So it looks like THQ is oxidized into RDZ, it loses hydrogen and additional electrons. My guess is those would bias mitochondria to produce excess H202 over water, and from there you would get mitochondrial dysfunction and ultimately cell apoptosis. I could see it's utility in cancer, since cancer is particularly susceptible to perturbations in metabolism and often lower in catalase (which would neutralize h202). I don't know how it would fit into disease with excess mitochondrial fission - it could be useful if catalase is low. I can't find any studies on it's relationship to mito fission though.

Okay, yeah, the 2e- + 2H reaction is more energetically favorable to produce H202 vs. regular metabolic processes (4e- + 4H) which are more biased to water.

I'm still looking into it more. We'll see.

 

[Regen8]

Thanks for that! The H202 bias explains a lot. It means that THQ does what inositol does but probably to a greater degree. Inositol mediates insulin which induces H202 which increases thyroid action. That was probably why my hair grew thick and fast, I had lots of energy and lost fat around estrogen areas (thighs, cheeks) when I tried a couple of doses years ago, as the lab rat for my mom.

Dr Wilson may be crazy but William Koch was not. Koch’s writings on quinones to start chain reactions in oxidation is interesting.

http://www.williamfkoch.com/web/version2/drkoch.php?id=36.0&dispID=disp(1);

Peat talks about Koch’s discoveries too. But he omits that Koch advocated a vegetarian diet. Koch said cascara ruins the bowel and agmatine is toxic, Peat recommends them. Seems like one has to drill down to mechanics with all these contradictions.

Gbolduev’s insight on the body being regulatory makes the most sense. His notes on fasting on Breuss juices to allow the body to reset seems the wisest thing to do when dysregulated.

After he said that, I stopped feeling guilty about not giving her progesterone/chemicals. I will refrain from letting her try Protocel because the formulation has mechanics that I don’t yet understand. Better to just balance diet and life.

Many thanks again.

 

[Canari]

I've been researching solutions to metabolic dysregulation ever since my mom got sick.
Gbolduev’s insight on the body being regulatory makes the most sense. His notes on fasting on Breuss juices to allow the body to reset seems the wisest thing to do when dysregulated.
After he said that, I stopped feeling guilty about not giving her progesterone/chemicals.

A pity I have no son!
I am looking for my father, and could do nothing for my mother.
And looking for me too! With Internet, we can do a lot of prevention, for what will come with the 50's.... A good metabolism should start early and be preserved...