Stopping Bone Loss?

[Niles]

Hi All,

In the past two weeks I started developing some pain in my teeth, jaw, chin, and cheeks, and it looks like I'm experiencing some bone loss. This is especially evident in my mouth, where teeth have shifted and developed gaps with the loss of jaw bone below the gums. I floss twice daily, so I've been able to see this occuring day-to-day. Does anyone have a theory as to what causes the bone loss, and what can be done to slow/stop it? Really want to figure this one out ASAP before it progresses too much further.

@gbolduev @TubZy @mattyb @Area-1255

It seems like it's related to cortisol somehow, but that's all I really know. I've been supping vit d + k and getting plenty of calcium from 3 cups of almond milk a day, so I don't think it's necessarily a deficiency. Hoping someone can help theorize what mechanism could be behind this so that I may be able to take action to slow or stop it.

[EDIT]: When I first started feeling the pain I was quick to write it off as a TMJ type symptom, but after closely monitoring the situation for two weeks now, I am highly confident that bone loss is accelerating.

 

[brix]

What doses of D,K, and calcium?

 

[Niles]

What doses of D,K, and calcium?

5000iu D3
680mcg K2
900mg calcium (in almond milk)

 

[brix]

I would supplement calcium and more K

 

[Niles]

I would supplement calcium and more K

I'll look into doing that. I've also just ordered a D3 + K2 transdermal patch, in case a lack of fat absorption is causing me to lose fat soluble vitamins.

 

[MNK99]

I'm going to consult an oral maxillofacial and or a dentist in the future too. I'll show them pics I had before and after fin. Just to see what they say.
Also I will check my dental records.

Asked 2 close family members (a facial plastics surgeon) and a dental hygienist. They said I'm "crazy". I'm not satisfied with their answer though. I've proven otherwise innumerable times. I know that for certain other drugs (completely different) like anticonvulsants, teeth loss and gingival hyperplasia can occur. Also stimulants jack up teeth for many people. I have no doubt that finasteride can affect the face and in extreme cases cause bone loss.

I also know I looked way better before and after effexor for whatever reasons (weight loss and I was just way healthier, not drinking as much, no liver damage, etc). They cause insulin resistance. I remain optimistic most any changes can be reversed this time as well, even if they're caused differently.

I was told antidepressants don't cause weight gain and no meds cause hair loss... anything's possible with these pharmaceutical abominations.
For anyone questioning side effects of meds - some drugs cause Stevens-Johnson Syndrome and TENS (Toxic epidermal necrolysis).

 

[artemis]

it looks like I'm experiencing some bone loss. This is especially evident in my teeth, where teeth have shifted and developed gaps with the loss of bone.

Hi Niles,
You're seeing your teeth, not your bone. Your teeth are anchored in your jawbone, which is not visible to you. Some shifting of teeth is normal, throughout life. Also, bone loss doesn't really happen that fast. I understand you feel that it is bone loss, but I'm just pointing out a few facts (I used to work in the dental field) that I hope might put your mind at ease. You should really see a periodontist, they will be able to tell you for sure if what you're experiencing is bone loss.

 

[Niles]

Hi Niles,
You're seeing your teeth, not your bone. Your teeth are anchored in your jawbone, which is not visible to you. Some shifting of teeth is normal, throughout life. Also, bone loss doesn't really happen that fast. I understand you feel that it is bone loss, but I'm just pointing out a few facts (I used to work in the dental field) that I hope might put your mind at ease. You should really see a periodontist, they will be able to tell you for sure if what you're experiencing is bone loss.

Thanks for the insight. I realize that my teeth are not directly reflective of the bone loss, but in cases of demineralization of the jaw, gaps forming between teeth is often a first sign.

It's true that in non-PFS people such rapid demineralization doesn't take place, but there are more than a few examples in PFS cases. @Slayo experienced dramatic bone loss over night.

I can understand the instinct to write it off as paranoia, and believe me, I had been in denial for the past two weeks. But between the pain, the shifting teeth, and surface irregularities of the cheek and jaw bones that have worsened in the past two weeks, I know that this is unfortunately happening.

 

[Niles]

Any other theories regarding cortisol or other hormonal causes?

 

[Slayo]

Bone loss is absolutely possible with pfs, howewer many mistake bone loss with subcutanues fat loss that it is also possible with pfs, while i think subcutaneus fat loss is reversible i do think that bone loss is irreversible.

My theory is that we can't keep anymore electrolytes in balance, so the body is taking everything from the bones, in particular in my experience i lost lots of bones after i smooked weed for the first time during pfs, i was dying, bones were burning like crazy, i ended in the hospital where they give me an IV saline and everything got fixed, included the extreme bone burning, i believe the weed was contaminated with mold that crashed my adrenals and the body wasn't able anymore to keep electrolytes in balance and started to take everything from the bones

 

[Niles]

Seeing some pretty major gum recession now ("shadows" of where the gum line used to be are clearly visible), with teeth becoming loose and gaps between them widening. I've also noticed that the empty sockets where my wisdom teeth had been (removed 8 years ago) have been rapidly demineralized, to the point where there is lots of loose/peeling gum tissue there. Constant metallic taste in my mouth as well.

Any advice? At this point I'm seriously considering going to the ER to get PTH, 1.25D OH D3, Calcium Ionized, Calcium Total, 25OH D3, and Phosphorus levels checked to try and sort this, because it is progressing significantly every day.There is absolutely no question as to whether or not this is happening.

 

[MNK99]

I do have some facial changes but I'm mostly optimistic about solving them or maybe I'm foolhardy.
Do you guys have a decreased wrist or ankle circumference (other bones too)?
I have a watch that I'm not wearing until I get better (bc it was part of my daily routine --- and I feel like I can't wear it just yet, it's like a good luck charm)... It still fits.

How am I supposed to check for sure? I didn't measure my wrists or anything -- but it nearly is an exact fit with my watch. So I can kind of measure like that.