The Hypothesis

[Shadow]

Ok since we are trying to organize the things and understand how PFS, PSSD and Post-Accutane are linked and their differences, I think that the first thing to do is to explain the hypothesis for the conditions in as much detail as possible.

This topic will be destined to this. To keep things clean and organized I will lock the topic, if you want to submit your hypothesis, correct the ones already submitted please send me a PM and I will update the topic accordingly.

The first step to solve a problem is to define it.

 

[Shadow]

PSSD

The main source of information about PSSD is Ghost's work which you can find here:
https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/neurohormone-theory/

 

[IHateFin]

heres my hypothesis from another thread:

i was reading how saw plametto causes PFS since they are both similar drugs in terms of potency and the basics is that they bind to the progesterone receptor and reduce both estrogen and dht. maybe this is what trains the body to work in a way where dht stays low now that the body has been forced to regulate estrogen with progesterone. this is an idea that isnt new and Gbolduev has stated this himself; however, what if the cure is as simple as reducing prog and increasing estrogen AND increasing dht.

ru will lower prog and will increase esrogen since it will upregulate the receptors in the absence of progesterone; however, since ru is also slightly antiandrogen its not guarenteed that DHT will be increased and triggered as the body's main estrogen opposition once again.

i believe that maybe for most PFS cases that if we can lower prog with a SUPER low dose of ru say 10mg, increase estrogen with maybe some licorice AND activate our own dht production through boron, trib, creatine and LCarnatine we can cure this.

this is probably why when taking exogenous DHT + estrogen will alleviate all pfs sides. only issue is they wont stick since its not your body producing these hormones and once the hormones are withdrawn all the benefits go with it.

CDnuts protocol cycles through different herbs that can raise hormones including estrogens so maybe if we can get the right mix of antiprog (which alone will increase estrogen), pro estrogen and pro DHT then maybe that is all that we need to cure this.

saw plametto binds to prog and lowers estrogen and dht so surely doing the exact opposite of this will cure the syndrome.

maybe the reason why RU has yet to fully cure us is because it fixes prog, estrogen and cort but doesnt necessarily always increase DHT since it is a weak anti-androgen. although we have yet to experiment with doses in the range of 10mg so maybe a dose like this can be enough to kill prog whcih will increase estrogen indirectly and allow androgens to rein unopposed.

i know this seems too simple to be the cure, but maybe it is this simple, but there is no ONE drug that can increase estrogen, decrease prog AND upregulate DHT.

all studies on ru486 do show that it increases androgens and adrenal androgens, but those are in bodies that dont have PFS and receptor issues or bodies that fight estrogen with the incorrect hormone. this is a lot to ponder, but im thinking that my next cycle (which would be early 2018) would be 10mg of ru (which IS enough to reduce prog significanly according to literature), some licorice and Boron, Lcarnatine and creatine. heck maybe the licorice wouldnt even be needed since the prog reduction alone will be enough to increase estrogen and estrogen receptor sensativity. i just need some true DHT boosters in there and after speaking with @jacknap i believe Boron and LCarnatine are a must and i personally like creatine for its increase in DHT as well.

what do you guys think of this? seems like a solid theory on paper, but we just need to put it in practice. RU486 works so well cuz it address EVERYTHING except for androgens since it is an antoandrogen. without this trait it could be the finasteride cure that could literally be as easy as popping a pill.

 

[bruschi11]

what do you guys think of this? seems like a solid theory on paper, but we just need to put it in practice. .

Love it. Exactly- it needs to be put into practice. Something is happening with you guys on RU, licorice, Ella etc. Gbol has his reasoning and it makes sense. We just need a lot of people to mess around with this stuff. We need people mineral balancing with proper diets, fasting, liver flushes etc. The goal here over on this forum is how to achieve the quickest way possible back to homeostasis from PFS, PSSD, PA etc and I just love it.

We realize nobody is going to find a cure for us- so lets just figure it out!

 

[aztec]

What this forum doing is impressive! A group of passionate and resilient guys. It is awesome to be a part of it. [mention]IHateFin[/mention] I am digging the theory and protocol. Let’s keep the perseverance and healing going!

 

[bruschi11]

heres my hypothesis from another thread:

i was reading how saw plametto causes PFS since they are both similar drugs in terms of potency and the basics is that they bind to the progesterone receptor and reduce both estrogen and dht. maybe this is what trains the body to work in a way where dht stays low now that the body has been forced to regulate estrogen with progesterone. this is an idea that isnt new and Gbolduev has stated this himself; however, what if the cure is as simple as reducing prog and increasing estrogen AND increasing dht.

ru will lower prog and will increase esrogen since it will upregulate the receptors in the absence of progesterone; however, since ru is also slightly antiandrogen its not guarenteed that DHT will be increased and triggered as the body's main estrogen opposition once again.

i believe that maybe for most PFS cases that if we can lower prog with a SUPER low dose of ru say 10mg, increase estrogen with maybe some licorice AND activate our own dht production through boron, trib, creatine and LCarnatine we can cure this.

I think we what we want isn't to increase estrogen and DHT. We want to increase both estrogen and DHT sensitivity while decreasing progesterone sensitivity. That's why progesterone worked so well for me after RU. Decreasing PROG sensitivity with all that extra PROG and RU basically did the "modulation of PROG receptors" making them more receptive to this change.

I'm trying natural, mineral route for time being, but if and when the time comes- RU with prog will be done together this time. 3 days of RU (10mg per day) while taking 7mg or so of PROG. Continue with PROG for 14 days overall possibly even more if things continue to get better while taking it.

High dose inositol would be used for prolactin in my case. I can't handle the cabergolines of the world, but others will.

I think from a hormone route- this might be the be the best way out.

I just know the hormone route isn't the best route for me at the time being as it effects my CFS issues pretty drastically. I'd rather go the fasting and minerals type routes for now and see where it takes me.

 

[IHateFin]

I think we what we want isn't to increase estrogen and DHT. We want to increase both estrogen and DHT sensitivity while decreasing progesterone sensitivity. That's why progesterone worked so well for me after RU. Decreasing PROG sensitivity with all that extra PROG and RU basically did the "modulation of PROG receptors" making them more receptive to this change.

I'm trying natural, mineral route for time being, but if and when the time comes- RU with prog will be done together this time. 3 days of RU (10mg per day) while taking 7mg or so of PROG. Continue with PROG for 14 days overall possibly even more if things continue to get better while taking it.

High dose inositol would be used for prolactin in my case. I can't handle the cabergolines of the world, but others will.

I think from a hormone route- this might be the be the best way out.

I just know the hormone route isn't the best route for me at the time being as it effects my CFS issues pretty drastically. I'd rather go the fasting and minerals type routes for now and see where it takes me.

youre def on the right track, man. inositol will be great for prolactin as it will increase d2 sensativity and density also helps a ton with thyroid and i would always pair it with sellenium for maximum thyroid benefit.

if you ever wanted to go a hormone route other than your plans with progesterone Randro is a good choice as its very well tolerated and it will replenish your neurosteroid Androsterone which will also modulate GABA directly and thus indirectly help sensitize your dopamine receptors.

 

[raven]

Guys what would you recommend in terms of reading to have a solid understanding of what you're talking about. I feel like I have some superficial knowledge but nowhere near enough to be able to contribute to theorising

 

[bruschi11]

@raven hmmm, I really just have a good understanding of cortisol, testosterone and how they feel as that's what I've been messing around with for years (pre-pfs I was told this was my issue which led to TRT, cort boosting -> feeling well, but hair loss then fin. Issue was really Lyme/mycoplasma).

From there, I learned a bit on how the hormones act on the neurotransmitters during early PFS. Cortisol--> serotonin. Testo, androgens --> dopamine (or are supposed to unless you have PFS).

When I got the mycoplasma/ Lyme diagnosis in June, my attention swayed from hormones, nuerotransmitters to chronic disease. It gave me a much needed break from them mentally while I put all the "pathogen work" in action.

Finally, I see @gbolduev preaching and then @IHateFin respond to RU so well in Septemeber so I really have just been on this forum trying to learn as much as I can. The hormones make the most sense to me due to my experience with them in the past. The whole mineral stuff is really out of my realm right now, but this is currently what I'm experimenting with.

What to read? Honestly I don't know. I am clueless with a lot of the things. But realizing that our issues with PFS appear to be more "insensitivity or receptor" issues rather than "amount" of a given hormone. We have an imbalance causing this insensitivity or receptor issue.

The question is whether going at the imbalance from the hormone route or the mineral, amino route is the best bet. While GBOLD will tell you hormone routes (RU, prog etc) aren't the best way as they "won't stick." We do have some evidence from several guys in the past who cycled progesterone to ultimately cure themselves--> light at the end, Beekay, Stomper1, ELB.

I do believe it is necessary to be healthy to take the hormone route. For instance "ELB" on Propeciahelp initially tried progesterone cycling unsuccessfully. He then went into fasting, plant based with fish diet, and big time health for a few months before going back to progesterone. At this point the progesterone started working and we was recovered within 2 to 3 months of that cycling.

 

[bruschi11]

heres my hypothesis from another thread:

maybe the reason why RU has yet to fully cure us is because it fixes prog, estrogen and cort but doesnt necessarily always increase DHT since it is a weak anti-androgen. although we have yet to experiment with doses in the range of 10mg so maybe a dose like this can be enough to kill prog whcih will increase estrogen indirectly and allow androgens to rein unopposed.

i know this seems too simple to be the cure, but maybe it is this simple, but there is no ONE drug that can increase estrogen, decrease prog AND upregulate DHT.

all studies on ru486 do show that it increases androgens and adrenal androgens, but those are in bodies that dont have PFS and receptor issues or bodies that fight estrogen with the incorrect hormone. this is a lot to ponder, but im thinking that my next cycle (which would be early 2018) would be 10mg of ru (which IS enough to reduce prog significanly according to literature), some licorice and Boron, Lcarnatine and creatine. heck maybe the licorice wouldnt even be needed since the prog reduction alone will be enough to increase estrogen and estrogen receptor sensativity. i just need some true DHT boosters in there and after speaking with @jacknap i believe Boron and LCarnatine are a must and i personally like creatine for its increase in DHT as well.

what do you guys think of this? seems like a solid theory on paper, but we just need to put it in practice. RU486 works so well cuz it address EVERYTHING except for androgens since it is an antoandrogen. without this trait it could be the finasteride cure that could literally be as easy as popping a pill.

I didn't read this part of your post or take it into account till now. I think you're spot on man with the fact that something along with RU, a blend of supplements could be the cure for PFS. Might have to be cycled, done a few times, and the patient must be in a decent state in terms of pathogens. A lot of guys with severe sides beyond sexual PFS need to fix themselves before a hormone route would work.

I really hope someone else tries RU/prog or ella/prog soon. It was potent for me when adding the prog. I want to do it again ASAP but have to focus on the mineral balancing becauseof the LYME/myco. Hormones route, although worked quite well sexually, lead to fatigue for me due to these non-PFS issues I have.