Ulcerative Colitis / IBD

[mattyb]

The only case I could find on someone using Breuss for gut problems (Crohn's).

http://mech.fsv.cvut.cz/~smilauer/Crohn_Smilauer_fasting_en.pdf

 

[HerrFisch]

Honestly this is getting so over-complicated. We know the solution already - fast. It is the only protocol that absolutely will check every box. Then it is all about controlling things with a proper refeed after (slowly upregulate gastric acid in tandem with protein consumption). Even a fasting protocol like ADF or 16/8 IF might help - but I would bet money a ~14 day Breuss like Orion has done with Na/K/Mg + Cl would be more effective.

Sure for me personally.
But I think getting better in understanding what really happens in UC would be nice too right?

 

[Helen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallothionein

Selenium , copper, zinc, histidine cysteine. LOL you get toxic, Your cortisol becomes insensitive,

 

[mattyb]

Sure for me personally.
But I think getting better in understanding what really happens in UC would be nice too right?

I think we have a pretty good idea. Likely a compromised system from poor microbiome + too many cells in G2/S phase (acute stress response) of replication while exposure to environmental/solar radiation or some kind of toxin that dysregulates mitochondria. Then we get too much ROS, too much mito fission. This sets off a cascade of problems afterwards (including inflammation) because it dysregulates systemic metabolism, microbiome more so, and mineral/protein balance. I would 100% expect there to be variation between individuals regarding what second-order effects are seen, so debating those second order effects seems kind of like intellectual masturbation IMO.

The problem starts at the cellular level and works it's way up to more systemic levels. This is why things like radiation exposure (whether ambient or direct) can cause UC - but when they know it's caused by radiation they just call it radiation colitis, but there is no difference between the two conditions. ROS/fission is the first response. What happens afterwards, although interesting, is much less relevant for finding a treatment.

Just my two cents.

But yes, if this is just an intellectual activity in trying to discover all of the systems that are dysregulated when there is excess ROS/mito fission, then by all means carry on. I just don't want other people getting the idea that this is discussing a true treatment. The treatment is fasting. The more we discuss it the more it becomes clear to me. The refeed is all about raising HCl first before introducing protein - but this has been in practice in many fasting clinics for a long time.

 

[Helen]

MattyB, fasting is good. but have to remember that fasting is basically chelation with your carnosine stores. You increase histidine ratios while fasting. But that is only if you have high carnosine levels. Some people will run low on histidine already. So fasting will be somewhat less productive for those people.

 

[mattyb]

MattyB, fasting is good. but have to remember that fasting is basically chelation with your carnosine stores. You increase histidine ratios while fasting. But that is only if you have high carnosine levels. Some people will run low on histidine already. So fasting will be somewhat less productive for those people.

This is only a concern if they are very toxic in heavy metals, and we don't know how bad that is in UC - I imagine it would vary greatly between people. I have my suspicion that some of the ingredients for teas in the Breuss fast (like sage and mint) are chelators too, so maximizing endogenous chelation may not be necessary. There is always zeolite/pectaclear as well. We can find ways to upregulate chelation if we think that is a concern.

Honestly, the way Orion is doing it looks perfect to me. I can't think of anything he is missing.

 

[opiath]

@gbolduev
Do you think histadine would be useful for copper utilization in the case of fast oxidation?
I have copper deficiency that is slow to correct, estrogen is very high but ceruloplasmin not as much.

I have like zero emotions, low lubrication (saliva, tears) and low stomach acid.
Maybe histamine secretion is low?

 

[mattyb]

@gbolduev
Do you think histadine would be useful for copper utilization in the case of fast oxidation?
I have copper deficiency that is slow to correct, estrogen is very high but ceruloplasmin not as much.

I have like zero emotions, low lubrication (saliva, tears) and low stomach acid.
Maybe histamine secretion is low?

This sounds like textbook low histamine/histidine.

 

[Orion]

This is only a concern if they are very toxic in heavy metals, and we don't know how bad that is in UC - I imagine it would vary greatly between people. I have my suspicion that some of the ingredients for teas in the Breuss fast (like sage and mint) are chelators too, so maximizing endogenous chelation may not be necessary. There is always zeolite/pectaclear as well. We can find ways to upregulate chelation if we think that is a concern.

Honestly, the way Orion is doing it looks perfect to me. I can't think of anything he is missing.

I will be making a post after breaking the fast this weekend to track how things stick in the coming weeks/months, I will be following your breaking protocol Mattyb.

Adding in brewers yeast, bee pollen, suggested aminos with HCL, 2hr pre-food greens/OO/vinegar, and small/tiny amounts of B1, active B2/B6, B3

Will be adding bi-weekly liver flushes, sodium alginate, continuing zeolite, just started Wujinsan fulvic acid(one month supply).

 

[mattyb]

I will be making a post after breaking the fast this weekend to track how things stick in the coming weeks/months, I will be following your breaking protocol Mattyb.

Adding in brewers yeast, bee pollen, suggested aminos with HCL, 2hr pre-food greens/OO/vinegar, and small/tiny amounts of B1, active B2/B6, B3

Will be adding bi-weekly liver flushes, sodium alginate, continuing zeolite, just started Wujinsan fulvic acid(one month supply).

I hope you are adding in all of that stuff (especially in the last sentence) after you've done a full refeed. You don't want to overcomplicate things too much when coming off the fast. Best to stick to just foods and keep it simple. Then after you've done a full refeed and are back to a more normal diet you can tinker if you feel the need.

 

[opiath]

This sounds like textbook low histamine/histidine.

Thanks.
I have already ordered 100g free form histidine to try it out.
Will report back next week if it brings any improvement.

 

[HerrFisch]

@gbolduev
Do you think histadine would be useful for copper utilization in the case of fast oxidation?
I have copper deficiency that is slow to correct, estrogen is very high but ceruloplasmin not as much.

I have like zero emotions, low lubrication (saliva, tears) and low stomach acid.
Maybe histamine secretion is low?

Copper deficiency but high estrogen?
Maybe its copper toxicity?

I have high estrogen and low blood copper too.

 

[Orion]

I hope you are adding in all of that stuff (especially in the last sentence) after you've done a full refeed. You don't want to overcomplicate things too much when coming off the fast. Best to stick to just foods and keep it simple. Then after you've done a full refeed and are back to a more normal diet you can tinker if you feel the need.

Yes last sentence plan; to go full on in January with 'detox', after Dec 3 week refeed and getting back up to speed at the gym with strength training.

Yearly plan now will be to do 14day water fast every Spring(May) and 28day Bruess every Fall(Oct).

 

[HerrFisch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallothionein

Selenium , copper, zinc, histidine cysteine. LOL you get toxic, Your cortisol becomes insensitive,

Yeah I posted those about UC and MT before. In UC there are mixed reports. Opposite findings ,overexpression and decreased expression.

Increased expression of metallothionein in inflammatory bowel disease.
Evidence for a Potential Role of Metallothioneins in Inflammatory Bowel Diseases

Zinc: no changes in plasma zinc but decreased metallothionein

 

[opiath]

Copper deficiency but high estrogen?
Maybe its copper toxicity?

Not likely.
When I got sick 2 years ago I though copper toxicity was my problem.
I took zinc and molybdenum for months and deteriorated a lot during this time.
My spine started deforming too. Was very hard to stand up straight.
Plus on my hair test it shows fast oxidation, low calcium, low copper, high zinc.

 

[Nighteyes]

Honestly this is getting so over-complicated. We know the solution already - fast. It is the only protocol that absolutely will check every box. Then it is all about controlling things with a proper refeed after (slowly upregulate gastric acid in tandem with protein consumption). Even a fasting protocol like ADF or 16/8 IF might help - but I would bet money a ~14 day Breuss like Orion has done with Na/K/Mg + Cl would be more effective.

Regardig Cl repletion what other good strategies besides greens exist? I do like the warm feeling from greens but I think the oxalates are causing me problems (have always been sensitive to them). I get this burning sensation on tongue and coating on teeth and taste aversion for the spinach.. Maybe just magnesium chloride and potassium chloride provides enough chloride if those supplements were used?

 

[jaa]

I think we have a pretty good idea. Likely a compromised system from poor microbiome + too many cells in G2/S phase (acute stress response) of replication while exposure to environmental/solar radiation or some kind of toxin that dysregulates mitochondria. Then we get too much ROS, too much mito fission. This sets off a cascade of problems afterwards (including inflammation) because it dysregulates systemic metabolism, microbiome more so, and mineral/protein balance. I would 100% expect there to be variation between individuals regarding what second-order effects are seen, so debating those second order effects seems kind of like intellectual masturbation IMO.

The problem starts at the cellular level and works it's way up to more systemic levels. This is why things like radiation exposure (whether ambient or direct) can cause UC - but when they know it's caused by radiation they just call it radiation colitis, but there is no difference between the two conditions. ROS/fission is the first response. What happens afterwards, although interesting, is much less relevant for finding a treatment.

Just my two cents.

But yes, if this is just an intellectual activity in trying to discover all of the systems that are dysregulated when there is excess ROS/mito fission, then by all means carry on. I just don't want other people getting the idea that this is discussing a true treatment. The treatment is fasting. The more we discuss it the more it becomes clear to me. The refeed is all about raising HCl first before introducing protein - but this has been in practice in many fasting clinics for a long time.

Did you hear that George St. Pierre was recently diagnosed with UC after stuffing himself to put on 15 pounds to move up a weight class? He decided to relinquish his belt because he attributes the UC to the over eating.

 

[mattyb]

Regardig Cl repletion what other good strategies besides greens exist? I do like the warm feeling from greens but I think the oxalates are causing me problems (have always been sensitive to them). I get this burning sensation on tongue and coating on teeth and taste aversion for the spinach.. Maybe just magnesium chloride and potassium chloride provides enough chloride if those supplements were used?

MgCl, KCl, and NaCl are fine. I always prefer food for myself though.

You can try out other dietary sources, most vegetables are high in chloride. Rye bread is high in chloride. You can always try greens with no oxalates - most lettuces are low in oxalates and have decent amounts of chloride. Greek salad is my favorite type of salad: cucumber, tomatoes, purple onion, red/green peppers, olive oil, salt, goat cheese, and oregano - and olives if you like them, but I hate olives.

Steaming or boiling vegetables and greens will reduce the oxalate content significantly as well, by as much as 75%. Most of my veggie intake, especially in winter, is through cooked veggies. My grandma, who is a very healthy 87 and on the path to crossing 100, never eats raw vegetables (or drinks milk, or eats cheese) and swears by it.

 

[mattyb]

Did you hear that George St. Pierre was recently diagnosed with UC after stuffing himself to put on 15 pounds to move up a weight class? He decided to relinquish his belt because he attributes the UC to the over eating.

No f'in way! That blows. I had heard that they had organized Whitaker vs. Rockhold for the belt, but I hadn't heard the reason GSP dropped out.

I'm sure the overeating made it worse, but he probably had some other shit going on too. He's always had a notoriously bad diet. He lived off of fast food for the first half of his career.

 

[jaa]

and olives if you like them, but I hate olives

Word of warning for olive lovers, they contain ferrous gluconate.

No f'in way! That blows. I had heard that they had organized Whitaker vs. Rockhold for the belt, but I hadn't heard the reason GSP dropped out.

I'm sure the overeating made it worse, but he probably had some other shit going on too. He's always had a notoriously bad diet. He lived off of fast food for the first half of his career.

Yeah it's for the best really. I'd rather see GSP fight at 170.

And I agree, I doubt it was just the overeating, more of a straw that broke the camels back sort of thing. Thought you'd find it interesting given how you promote fasting to reduce fission and increase fusion.