Vicecaz PAS log

[vicecaz]

Hello everyone, I finally managed to have those tests done

A bit about myself, currently 21 years old and took accutane for 7 months in 2013/2014, crashed 6 months later but something felt wrong right after already

5 months of cannabis oil last year ( made me deficient in zinc, I had white marks on nails ) + a lot of supplements, liver flush, colon cleanse before

BLOOD LABS:

Progesterone: 1.2nmo/L (<0.5) HIGH
Ceruloplasmin: 0.16g/l (0.15-0.30)
Oestradiol: 42.4pg/ml (11.3-43.2)
Prolactin: 22.8ng/ml (4.0-15.2) HIGH
Test: 7.58ng/mL (2.49-8.36)
Cortisol: 439,9 nmol/L (166-507)
TSH: 1.18UI/mL (0.27-4.20)
FSH: 1.2UI/L (1.5-12.4 UI/L) LOW
LH: 5.4UI/L. (1.7-8.6)

Some other results from another blood test a year ago:

Sodium: 140mmol/L (136-145)
Potassium: 4.5 mmol/L (3.5-5.1)


For three years now everytime I test blood platelets they end up low, high transaminases and high HDL cholesterol also, fwiw.

HAIR TEST: ( trace elements )

I was supplement-free for three weeks before performing the test, the only thing I was taking prior was zinc here and there. I also performed a 10 days water fast two weeks before sending the sample
Results are attached, but here's a brief summary of what is out of range;
Calcium - HIGH
Phosphorus - HIGH
Cobalt - HIGH

Ca/P - HIGH
Ca/K - HIGH
Ca/Mg - HIGH

 

[vicecaz]

So I definitely have something going on with calcium, but lack the knowledge to know what it is
Diet wise, I don't drink milk, eat cheese or anything but I remember by the time I performed the hair test I was drinking tons of kefir, which might explain the high ratios
I haven't had kefir for weeks now

Apparently I am a Slow Type 1 : Parasympathetic dominant, tendency toward decreased thyroid function and decreased adrenal function ( reduced secretion of hormones )


Regarding the issue with calcium/magnesium, I was advised to take vitamin B6 ( pyridoxine ) with magnesium, chromium. HCl and Vit E were also recommended
and to stay away from calcium, vit D supplements, Boron, thymus, cod liver oil

 

[tanedout]

I think this is the first time I've seen someone post-accutane get progesterone tested, it's quite difficult to get that. High as I think would usually be expected. Your E2 and cortisol are both on the high-side. Quite surprised that LH is in range and not on the low-side.

Have you had DHT tested before?

What protocol are you thinking of adopting?

 

[raven]

@barbaar also had high calcium and calcium ratios

 

[vicecaz]

@tanedout I never had DHT tested before no..

For now I'll follow the electrolyte protocol by gbol, the one tubzy is having good results with
The hair test mentioned hypoclochlorhydria and tissue alkalinity as characteristics of slow 1 metabolic type so that makes sense

Depending on the results and how things progress with this protocol my next step would be CD nuts protocol
That's what I was planning to do initially since I finally managed to purchase all of the required herbs and supps . In addition I was thinking of adding some suggestion from Chi and IHP's recovery that took actions towards pathogens/fungus with Nystatin, herbal anti bacterials, Probiotics etc as I developed a Seborrheic dermatitis last year as well.Playing with Licorice root, inositol, Ella were on the list too

What's your current protocol ? I know you tried Pine pollen already but I don't know if that was with the rest of CD's protocol

Edit: nevermind, I saw from another post you were about to follow the electrolytes protocol, with a few changes

@raven Thanks you, I know he'll try/is trying the electrolyte protocol from gbol as well. I wonder if we'll have a similar experience with it

 

[tanedout]

@tanedoutWhat's your current protocol ? I know you tried Pine pollen already but I don't know if that was with the rest of CD's protocol

Yeah I did the CD herb cycling protocol for a bit and definitely got some gains, but I felt they were just when I was cycling the herbs, and only got up to a certain level and then plateau'd. Nothing that lasted long upon stopping. I've got some R-Andro but haven't done a full cycle. Also tried RSO for about 5-6 months like you, and I found besides getting some brief moments of sensitivity coming back I got nothing much else and nothing lasting. Kefir seemed to be improve mental clarity but I seem to always get candida type issues from stuff like that, and I got a full on white at the back of the tongue.

My current protocol in addition to vitamins is 500mg potassium chloride, 3 x betaine HCL, 500mg UDCA and now the pine pollen too. Pine pollen got me some good gains in the past, but resulted in high-e sides like puffy/sensitive nips. Odd as it should lower e as far as I can see.

 

[vicecaz]

Hey @gbolduev @mattyb
If you got any spare time, how would you interpret my hairiest analysis results ?


Here's what I gathered so far
High Ca/Mg - Pancreas

The ratio of calcium to magnesium on a hair test reveals a lot of data regarding glucose homeostasis. Elevated Ca/Mg ratios indicate the tendency towards insulin resistance and the overconsumption of carbohydrates relative to fat and protein. Glycemic control is one of the most vitally important mechanisms for maintaining proper health. Ca/mg ratios greater than 10 indicates excess carbohydrate consumption/blood sugar de-regulation.
>> Insulin resistant in my case, and I react pretty badly to any type of carbohydrates


High Ca/K - Thyroid Function

The calcium/potassium ratio is indicative of thyroid function. High Calcium over Potassium (>10) indicates a decreased thyroid effect at the cellular level. A low Ca/K ratio (<3) indicates an excess thyroid effect at the cellular level.
>>Hypothyroid


LOW Na/K - Adrenal Balance
Sodium is controlled by the adrenal hormone cortisol. Potassium is controlled by the hormone aldosterone (which regulates sodium retnetion). Cortisol is anti-inflammatory and aldosterone is pro-inflammatory. When the Na/K ratio is high (>10), there is acute stress and high cortisol. When the Na/K ratio is low (<2), there is likely adrenal burnout and low cortisol levels.
>> Adrenal burnout in my case

 

[tanedout]

LOW Na/K - Adrenal Balance
Sodium is controlled by the adrenal hormone cortisol. Potassium is controlled by the hormone aldosterone (which regulates sodium retnetion). Cortisol is anti-inflammatory and aldosterone is pro-inflammatory. When the Na/K ratio is high (>10), there is acute stress and high cortisol. When the Na/K ratio is low (<2), there is likely adrenal burnout and low cortisol levels.
>> Adrenal burnout in my case

You actually have some similarities to my hair analysis. I have low Na/K, yet my cortisol is really high and my sodium is in range, so it doesn't really tie in with adrenal burnout. Shame you don't have serum cortisol

My hair analysis is here;

TanedOut Hair Mineral Analysis

Also if you read the detail, the low Na/K can also be an indication of low stomach acid..

Na/K (Sodium/Potassium) = LOW (1.25 vs 2.5 reference)

• Suggests progesterone dominance, chronic stress, adrenal weakness, deficiency of hydrochloric acid
• Many minerals raise the ratio such as manganese, chromium, and selenium.
• Vitamins can also affect the ratio. Most of the B-complex vitamins raise the ratio. Vitamin E tends to raise it a lot

 

[Orion]

Have you read through the Electrolyte Protocol for Improved Health thread?

Looks like you would need tons of HCl and KCl, with lots of protein to bring down cortisol.

Here is a good explanation: Electrolyte Protocol for Improved Health

 

[raven]

@vicecaz I got my results yesterday, same type as you, slow 1 metabolic type, highish Zinc and Calcium, lowish Magnesium Potassium Sodium Copper. What protocol are you thinking of taking?

 

[B_D_Acc]

PA same as you. My Progesterone came back at 3nmol/L but my lab's reference range was <3. I wondered if that might be really high and clearly it is given your labs range being <0.5nmo/L.

Awesome work getting the hair test results. By the looks of it the electrolyte protocol would be good for you.

 

[vicecaz]

@raven I'll experiment with the electrolyte protocol. I'm just waiting for the last products to arrive. Otherwise I'll be following Cdsnuts protocol, as well as Chi,IHP,Maxout,champstar, entropy recommendations. Anyone that recovered


@B_D_Acc Yes, it's definitely high in my opinion too. I'll try to test it again in a few months after all those upcoming trials

 

[tanedout]

blood test results :
Progesterone 0,49 nmol/l (normal level 0,7 – 4,3 nmol/l);
Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) 21,33 nmol/l (normal level 18,3-54,1 nmol/l);
Estradiol (e2) <5 pg/ml (normal level 25,00-60,70);
Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) 4,44 IU/l (normal level 1,5-12,4);
Luteinizing Hormone (LH) 3,51 IU/l (normal level 1,7 - 8,6);
Prolactin 162,3 mIU/l (normal level 86,00 - 324,00);
Testosterone 8,95 nmol/l (normal level 6,68-27,0)

Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

Third progesterone blood test for a PAS person I've seen, and again it's high..

 

[vicecaz]

@tanedout

well this guy has it low no ?

 

[tanedout]

@tanedout

well this guy has it low no ?

Ah well spotted! So that is everyone whose results I've seen have either been high (above range) or low (below range), possibly indicating the receptors have been left either down or up-regulated. This guy looks to have low estradiol too.

 

[Latapy]

Having seborrheic dermatitis there is an obvious breakout when I ingest carbs

Interesting. My seborrheic dermatitis flares when I eat saturated fat. I've actually searched a little bit about it, and plenty of people say the exact same. Does it flare when you eat it too?
And, to be more specific, my seborrheic dermatitis is located near the nostrils.

P.S.: I didn't want to invade barbaar's thread with this off topic.

 

[vicecaz]

@Latapy

I drastically reduced the flare up with diet, sauna/sweating, some supplements/antifungal, topical treatment
I never had the redness of SD, just the flaking, it was located on scalp, beard, ears, chest .
Interesting you mentioned saturated fats, for other reasons it is only a small part of my diet so I never really dig the issue; I don't eat cheese, milk since I'm a teen but last month I had to eat some parmesan and the day after I had a flare up . Coconut oil is also saturated fats and I always suspected I was reacting bad with it regarding SD, an issue I never had with olive oil which is mainly monounsaturated fats with only little saturated fats; so I would say yes definitely, saturated fats are probably problematic too.

Nevertheless I eat a few times a week beef steak which also contain saturated fats cooked with goose fats and I haven't noticed a strong reaction compared to cheese/coocnut oil but I'll experiment with 0 saturated fats from these foods two or three days after introducing them again to really see

Thanks for pointing this out

 

[Latapy]

@Latapy

I drastically reduced the flare up with diet, sauna/sweating, some supplements/antifungal, topical treatment
I never had the redness of SD, just the flaking, it was located on scalp, beard, ears, chest .
Interesting you mentioned saturated fats, for other reasons it is only a small part of my diet so I never really dig the issue; I don't eat cheese, milk since I'm a teen but last month I had to eat some parmesan and the day after I had a flare up . Coconut oil is also saturated fats and I always suspected I was reacting bad with it regarding SD, an issue I never had with olive oil which is mainly monounsaturated fats with only little saturated fats; so I would say yes definitely, saturated fats are probably problematic too.

Nevertheless I eat a few times a week beef steak which also contain saturated fats cooked with goose fats and I haven't noticed a strong reaction compared to cheese/coocnut oil but I'll experiment with 0 saturated fats from these foods two or three days after introducing them again to really see

Thanks for pointing this out

Yeah, definitely! Olive oil has been my number 1 fat, because of this. Even though I like how I feel when I eat saturated fat, it gives me tons of side effects which I don't appreciate at all. SD is one of them.
All saturated fat flares my SD: dairy fat, chocolate, coconut oil, fat from meat.
Well, I also eat some meat every so often, which has inevitable saturated fat. But like you've said, the reaction is very minimal.

You're welcome!

 

[vicecaz]

I was willing to know which one of B1 and B2 would make me feel better since apparently Accutane make you deficiently in those and Helen had the beginning of a theory regarding them
Last month did a bit of 800/1000mg B1 (Thiamine HCl ) with no significant effect. It was only a bottle of 100 caps of 100mg so nothing much all in all, I'll probably have to retry it later
Still it's B2 turn now. Started 3 days ago, 100mg a day, I'll probably up the dosage soon and see how I feel


Still on CDnuts protocol + electrolyte, vit E/C , anti fungal cocktail ( Black walnut, wormwood, Clove ) 1 week on 3 weeks off
Sometimes Ox bile / Bile acid factors
Licorice root once every 10 days, still trying to see if it's good or not for me. So far good results
Diet is the one TEI recommended
Cinammon

Recently is the best I've felt since I took this drug, mentally feeling good, anhedonia is still here but better recently . I tried increasing the dosage of Catuaba Bark ( Serotonine and Dopamine reuptake Inhibitor ) and Muira Puama ( D1,Beta,2A agonism, AcHe blocker ) as part of CD's herbs rotation so it could be why, maybe not
Remains Dry eyes and sexual sides are lagging, still not feeling optimal after carbs/sugar ( inflammation ) and sensitivities to some food

In a few weeks I'll start my second cycle of R Andro, going for 6+ weeks

 

[tanedout]

I was willing to know which one of B1 and B2 would make me feel better since apparently Accutane make you deficiently in those and Helen had the beginning of a theory regarding them
Last month did a bit of 800/1000mg B1 (Thiamine HCl ) with no significant effect. It was only a bottle of 100 caps of 100mg so nothing much all in all, I'll probably have to retry it later
Still it's B2 turn now. Started 3 days ago, 100mg a day, I'll probably up the dosage soon and see how I feel


Still on CDnuts protocol + of electrolyte, vit E/C , anti fungal cocktail ( Black walnut, wormwood, Clove ) 1 week on 3 weeks off
Sometimes Ox bile / Bile acid factors
Licorice root once every 10 days, still trying to see if it's good or not for me. So far good results
Diet is the one TEI recommended
Cinammon

Recently is the best I've felt since I took this drug, mentally feeling good, anhedonia is still here but better recently . I tried increasing the dosage of Catuaba Bark ( Serotonine and Dopamine reuptake Inhibitor ) and Muira Puama ( D1,Beta,2A agonism, AcHe blocker ) as part of CD's herbs rotation so it could be why, maybe not
Remains Dry eyes and sexual sides are lagging, still not feeling optimal after carbs/sugar ( inflammation ) and sensitivities to some food

In a few weeks I'll start my second cycle of R Andro, going for 6+ weeks

Have you noticed any herxheimer/die off effects of the anti-fungals? Did you notice anything on your first R-Andro cycle?