Why we no longer discuss Ella / RU?

[Aflac94]

Yeah I think we talked this before with phenibut. Phenibut also activates GABA B but unfortunately majority of PFS suffers have tried it already too so I'm sure one person was a slow oxidizer. I think many ppl tried baclofen as well

I tried Phenibut in my worst stages , helped initiate sleep for a few days, that’s it. No cure.

I’m slow oxidizer on hair test , normal test/DHT, high copper on hair

I’m interested in cortisol now that Helen is talking about it, a short course of prednisone is so commonly prescribed here in US would be easy to try

 

[Troy]

@Boris Cytochrome recovered from cortisol supplements.

Cortisol will tank potassium and cause severe hypokalemia, it would do the opposite what progestin does.

Also it would get rid of copper from the cell, and upregulate progesterone receptor. and stops calcium activation.



May be for the fast oxidizer, it could be estrogen. to upregulate cortisol. and upregulate progesterone.



this is all connected also to A1A also

Is this why potassium helped me? It acted in a similar way to cortisol?

 

[TubZy]

I tried Phenibut in my worst stages , helped initiate sleep for a few days, that’s it. No cure.

I’m slow oxidizer on hair test , normal test/DHT, high copper on hair

I’m interested in cortisol now that Helen is talking about it, a short course of prednisone is so commonly prescribed here in US would be easy to try

Same I tried it as well in my worse stages early on in PFS and had the same result as you. I'm a fast oxidizer now not sure if I was back then though but it didn't do much for me and sucked when I got off it due to withdraw

 

[bruschi11]

I’m surprised people aren’t trying Ella more often here. It’s had some real success like @aztec . Who else?

 

[brix]

I’m surprised people aren’t trying Ella more often here. It’s had some real success like @aztec . Who else?

It’s the one thing that has left me with a permanent higher baseline.

 

[jinstewart]

@jinstewart I found some more info on RU. I'll just copy and paste it here. But it seems higher dose yields shorter time and better results after ceasing. This guy and study was showing more impressive results with 600mg for only 4 days straight. Higher dose shorter time period may be even safer it seems in terms of side effects. May be worth a read.

If you look at this study in which mifepristone (RU 486) was used to treat major depression, they used a dose of 200 mg daily for up to eight weeks. That would make a course of mifepristone experiment incredibly expensive, in the order of $5000.

Another study using mifepristone for psychotic major depression used an even higher dose of 600 to 1,200 mg, but just for 7 days.

And a similar study for psychotic major depression used 600 mg of mifepristone daily for just four days, which resulted in substantial improvement in both depression and psychosis; this study commented that by abruptly blocking the glucocorticoid type II receptors, mifepristone
may cause a “resetting” of the HPA axis. Cortisol levels rise when mifepristone is taken because the feedback mechanism is partially disrupted, however, normal cortisol rhythm returns and seems to remain intact after mifepristone is discontinued. Short-term use of mifepristone may prove to be its most effective regimen.
So it looks like a short 4 day course of mifepristone at 600 mg daily can achieve this HPA axis reset, which may have long term benefits.

The above study says that mifepristone is a glucocorticoid type II receptor antagonist, but has very little effect on type I receptors.

Rash was a common side effect with mifepristone use (see the section entitled "Side effects of chronic mifepristone administration" in this paper). But if you are only taking mifepristone for 4 days, that hopefully may be too short a time for the rash to manifest.

Boris that is solid gold thank you hugely for finding those!

Okay, so now we know people have run these doses before and not exploded or anything. Nice to be aware of the potential, mild sides too!

Off the back of this then, shall I get a couple more in and run 800mg/day for 5 days? What do we all think?

Cheers to everyone pitching in - this is all looking very exciting.

 

[TubZy]

Boris that is solid gold thank you hugely for finding those!

Okay, so now we know people have run these doses before and not exploded or anything. Nice to be aware of the potential, mild sides too!

Off the back of this then, shall I get a couple more in and run 800mg/day for 5 days? What do we all think?

Cheers to everyone pitching in - this is all looking very exciting.

It's up to you maybe try 600mg first time around and go longer than 4 days I would say. If you get some improvements after that and it sticks (like the study showed) or you get some benefits next time try 800mg+ etc. This is if you can get RU easily and money is not a concern for you. If it is a concern and need to make the most bang for your buck at the moment you could try 800mg this time around.

 

[jinstewart]

Maybe in the spirit of 'big sledgehammer' (which I think is the approach here, just from my impressions) I'll call it 800mg/day for 5 days. Money is no concern currently, but if $2k (eg two hefty cycles + bloods) cures PFS here then it's worth it, if I'm constantly dropping $2k on cycles it's not workable long-term. With the bloods proposed though I hope we'll learn a little bit too.

@Boris Ta again for all the help with this. You think at 800mg/day we split the dose AM and PM or stick to the principle of 1 bigger dose = more to cross the BBB?

Keep any and all suggestions etc coming guys. It's looking like kickoff will be Sunday 26th.

 

[TubZy]

Maybe in the spirit of 'big sledgehammer' (which I think is the approach here, just from my impressions) I'll call it 800mg/day for 5 days. Money is no concern currently, but if $2k (eg two hefty cycles + bloods) cures PFS here then it's worth it, if I'm constantly dropping $2k on cycles it's not workable long-term. With the bloods proposed though I hope we'll learn a little bit too.

@Boris Ta again for all the help with this. You think at 800mg/day we split the dose AM and PM or stick to the principle of 1 bigger dose = more to cross the BBB?

Keep any and all suggestions etc coming guys. It's looking like kickoff will be Sunday 26th.

That sounds good. Regarding the split dosing, I'm not sure I can't get access to any of those full studies unless someone else can to see if it states how they took it. I do know from one of the studies that it's specifcally said that is has a very hard time crossing the BBB so bigger doses are needed at once. That is a good question I'm really not sure hope someone can get access to the full study or else if it was me I would maybe take it all in one shot

 

[snowball]

Ella resulted in more long lasting effect Vs RU or anything else I had tried.

 

[TubZy]

Ella resulted in more long lasting effect Vs RU or anything else I had tried.

If you are not on a regimen already give it a try but research it as much as possible first and try to understand which is the key dose and frequency. Ella could have worked better than RU in your case because the dose wasn't enough as we we were all trying tiny doses of RU in comparison to the studies so that could also be why it didn't last compared to Ella (maybe Ella is more bioavailable??)

 

[jinstewart]

Cheers again all - I might go for all in one dose in that case.

TEI results are in too btw. Pre-bloods getting taken tomorrow still, should have those by next Friday, then we begin next weekend!

Remaining RU ordered too.

 

[Potion]

That sounds good. Regarding the split dosing, I'm not sure I can't get access to any of those full studies unless someone else can to see if it states how they took it. I do know from one of the studies that it's specifcally said that is has a very hard time crossing the BBB so bigger doses are needed at once. That is a good question I'm really not sure hope someone can get access to the full study or else if it was me I would maybe take it all in one shot

Did you need this study?

 

[TubZy]

Did you need this study?

Excellent thank you! That attachment confirms it indeed was once a day dosage they were using. Makes sense.

Patients suffering from psychotic major depression benefit from a brief treatment with the glucocorticoid/progester-one receptor antagonist RU38486 or mifepristone (MIF), in a dose range of 600–1200 mg/day, once a day for four to
seven days. This high dose of the antiglucocorticoid rapidly improves emotional expressions and cognitive abilities, and
restores aberrant levels of the corticosteroids

 

[TubZy]

Damn there a shit ton of good info in the full study @Helen check it out

 

[barbaar]

Sci-hub.tw is great for getting around paywalls if anyone was wondering

 

[snowball]

If you are not on a regimen already give it a try but research it as much as possible first and try to understand which is the key dose and frequency. Ella could have worked better than RU in your case because the dose wasn't enough as we we were all trying tiny doses of RU in comparison to the studies so that could also be why it didn't last compared to Ella (maybe Ella is more bioavailable??)

Agree. I just got R-andro. One option is try a quick R-andro cycle first and then Ella. We have seen this likely improved baseline for @Goose12

 

[bruschi11]

@MNK99 did you ever use ella?

Anyone out there use both RU and ella on separate occasions?

I wouldn't mind using a short three day cycle for something but I don't want to mess with cortisol or prolactin.

That said, this liver flush thing every week or two is definitely helping in sexual area . Hopefully I can just flush my way to recovery instead lol but gotta have some backup plans if full health doesn't bring pfs recovery when I get there.

 

[Goose12]

@MNK99 did you ever use ella?

Anyone out there use both RU and ella on separate occasions?

I wouldn't mind using a short three day cycle for something but I don't want to mess with cortisol or prolactin.

That said, this liver flush thing every week or two is definitely helping in sexual area . Hopefully I can just flush my way to recovery instead lol but gotta have some backup plans if full health doesn't bring pfs recovery when I get there.

I have but I would have to read my log again to remember exactly how I felt. RU and Ella definitely are different but everyone is so different the only thing I can recommend is tei. I had good results from both but my last cycle of Ella, in between tei cycles, made me feel terrible. Felt like I was crashing again but luckily I bounced back.

 

[Goose12]

Agree. I just got R-andro. One option is try a quick R-andro cycle first and then Ella. We have seen this likely improved baseline for @Goose12

I do think randro helped with my ru cycles, but I don't know if it's the same for everyone.