ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[Orion]

HCl needs to be taken with potassium. That's how you rehydrate after chloride depletion, which I suspect most people with PFS will have secondary to mineralocorticoid disregulation.

Mattyb can you talk about dosages used?


@tanedout @bruschi11 How much betaine are you using per meal? I have tried 650mg to 5000mg and seem to get good results, but will test with extra K, and will try some cycles like mattyb rec'd

 

[Aleksandr]

@gbolduev what do you think is happening in Dean Karnazes physiology? This is the guy who ran 50 marathons in 50 days. supposedly he cannot build up lactic acid in his muscles because his lactic clearance is so fast. He's 55, ripped, with a perfect head of hair.

Surely this guy is in fast oxidation since he is so lean, but no sign of diffuse thinning. He does look less muscular now he is older, though. I'd love to see his hair test.

Probably around age 55:

When he was younger:

Its interesting it looks like his hair is lighter??? But not grey. Although his skin looks more tanned too . Maybe he just spends a crap tone of time at the beach now? Lol.

 

[Helen]

electorlytes are 80% of zinc finger protocol. For some reason people see histidine, copper, etc. but it is electrolytes that is 80% of it. Since in alkalosis that is what you get rid of with

@TubZy Signs of chloride depletion is blood work.

Some just take copper. but it is all about magnesium and potassium chlorides

 

[TubZy]

electorlytes are 80% of zinc finger protocol. For some reason people see histidine, copper, etc. but it is electrolytes that is 80% of it. Since in alkalosis that is what you get rid of with

@TubZy Signs of chloride depletion is blood work.

Some just take copper. but it is all about magnesium and potassium chlorides

oh okay cool. I had blood work a while back and chloride was within range

 

[JDreamer]

I think MTHFR issues are the outcome of histidine deficiency. since Active folate is what breaks down histidine. And all those people dont have any problems of converting folate to its active form. it is just that the conversion is stopped to conserve histidine.


Once you have histidine , the body will have stomach acid and the conversion of folate will go back online. Some supplement folate with histidine at the same time. which I already outlined in the first post.

I'm determined to get my hair panels done. But the more research I do, the more likely it seems I have a histidine issue going on (low).

To sum it up the best I can, from 2004-2006 I was traveling for work and putting in ridiculous hours - running on energy drinks and coffee. I developed a bad oral infection near my wisdom tooth, I had +100 degree temps, my whole body ached, you get the picture. I tried to work through it and next thing you know I had to check myself into a hospital. I was never the same after that and developed all kinds of strange non-localized symptoms - enough to make me scared. To this day the carryovers are hair loss, sinus issues, poor digestion, cold hands/feet, no/low libido (crash after orgasms), puffy face, poor sleep, shallow breathing, and anxiety/tension. Keep in mind I also once had a 6 month bout of mono back in college and I'm embarrassed to say this, but excessive masturbation was in issue when I was really depressed in my teens/20s's.

I saw a ton of GP's over the years, but none of them seemed to be listening to me. I started reviewing blood serum panels to dig up what I think they may have been missing. Keep in mind they all never consistently tested the same things.

- Diagnosed Gilbert's Syndrome (elevated bilirubin)
- Elevated Folate (on one panel)
- CO2 is always at the very top end of the range
- Calcium is always at the very top end of the range
- Sodium is always at the top end of the range
- TSH is always between 2-3
- T3 is elevated
- High LDL
- Elevated Cortisol
- Testosterone bottom of the range, DHT bottom of range, estrogen bottom of range
- Antiphospholipid Synrdome antibodies and a recommendation for MTHFR tests were insisted by a nurse practitioner

I'm fairly sure I'm overmethylating - especially after I once tried out a regimen to increase my dopamine thinking it would help with my hair loss. I became a very angry/agitated person. My liver is congested, which leads to copper toxicity. Copper toxicity inhibits histidine, reduces zinc, lowers stomach acid and causes sinus issues. I'm not a medical professional and I could be wrong, but I dunno I feel like I'm close and appreciate the wealth of information being shared.

 

[raven]

Wow @JDreamer those are almost exactly the same results as me. Low T, High Folate, High bilirubin, High calcium, high cortisol. I haven't got DHT, T3 and TSH tested. How was your lymphocyte count, albumin and your hba1c?

 

[tanedout]

@tanedout @bruschi11 How much betaine are you using per meal? I have tried 650mg to 5000mg and seem to get good results, but will test with extra K, and will try some cycles like mattyb rec'd

Just one cap of each, so 325mg betaine and 400mg potassium chloride, but it's enough to notice improved clarity after. I might try adding in magnesium and sodium soon

 

[Helen]

I'm determined to get my hair panels done. But the more research I do, the more likely it seems I have a histidine issue going on (low).

To sum it up the best I can, from 2004-2006 I was traveling for work and putting in ridiculous hours - running on energy drinks and coffee. I developed a bad oral infection near my wisdom tooth, I had +100 degree temps, my whole body ached, you get the picture. I tried to work through it and next thing you know I had to check myself into a hospital. I was never the same after that and developed all kinds of strange non-localized symptoms - enough to make me scared. To this day the carryovers are hair loss, sinus issues, poor digestion, cold hands/feet, no/low libido (crash after orgasms), puffy face, poor sleep, shallow breathing, and anxiety/tension. Keep in mind I also once had a 6 month bout of mono back in college and I'm embarrassed to say this, but excessive masturbation was in issue when I was really depressed in my teens/20s's.

I saw a ton of GP's over the years, but none of them seemed to be listening to me. I started reviewing blood serum panels to dig up what I think they may have been missing. Keep in mind they all never consistently tested the same things.

- Diagnosed Gilbert's Syndrome (elevated bilirubin)
- Elevated Folate (on one panel)
- CO2 is always at the very top end of the range
- Calcium is always at the very top end of the range
- Sodium is always at the top end of the range
- TSH is always between 2-3
- T3 is elevated
- High LDL
- Elevated Cortisol
- Testosterone bottom of the range, DHT bottom of range, estrogen bottom of range
- Antiphospholipid Synrdome antibodies and a recommendation for MTHFR tests were insisted by a nurse practitioner

I'm fairly sure I'm overmethylating - especially after I once tried out a regimen to increase my dopamine thinking it would help with my hair loss. I became a very angry/agitated person. My liver is congested, which leads to copper toxicity. Copper toxicity inhibits histidine, reduces zinc, lowers stomach acid and causes sinus issues. I'm not a medical professional and I could be wrong, but I dunno I feel like I'm close and appreciate the wealth of information being shared.

I agree , most people have high copper in their livers. that is why I rec zinc manganese for hairloss.

 

[Helen]

Basically if your calcium levels are normal or high on the hairtest, IMO this says that you are not low on copper. this is why 4 highs or 3 highs are so tricky on the hairtest.

ARL does give copper in those cases , and people feel bad on it at first. just imagine normal calcium , high potassium high sodium , high magnesium. A lot of people with dysregulation from fin, accutane etc have this.

If calcium is not low when potassium is high, this always means slow oxidation. Potassium is high since cortisol is sky high. body thinks it is in fast oxidation and wastes more and more potassium from the cell. ARL does give copper in this case. with all other nutrients including zinc. And people do feel bad slowing down at first.

I am not sure about copper in those cases. It is more of a MAO problem. that breaks down serotonin. MAO produces aldehydes so to break those people need b2 and molybdenum

 

[Vida]

I agree , most people have high copper in their livers. that is why I rec zinc manganese for hairloss.

How does one specifically excrete copper from the liver?

 

[Steve]

electorlytes are 80% of zinc finger protocol. For some reason people see histidine, copper, etc. but it is electrolytes that is 80% of it. Since in alkalosis that is what you get rid of with

@TubZy Signs of chloride depletion is blood work.

Some just take copper. but it is all about magnesium and potassium chlorides

I've tried to get your response on this before but I'll try again.

If electrolytes are important, would swimming in the ocean help us?

 

[Helen]

I've tried to get your response on this before but I'll try again.

If electrolytes are important, would swimming in the ocean help us?

I mentioned swimming in the ocean like 100 times already. fasting and swimming in the ocean

 

[Steve]

I mentioned swimming in the ocean like 100 times already. fasting and swimming in the ocean

Could it be a cure alone if we do it for long enough? And can it still have benefits if we aren't fasting?

 

[HerrFisch]

I am not sure about copper in those cases. It is more of a MAO problem. that breaks down serotonin. MAO produces aldehydes so to break those people need b2 and molybdenum

Do you know any cases where its preferable to take "active b2" (R5p or FMN) instead of just normal riboflavine?

 

[Steve]

I mentioned swimming in the ocean like 100 times already. fasting and swimming in the ocean

Would it take say 30 minutes of ocean swimming every day for 3 weeks (say we aren't fasting) until we see results? And by ocean swimming you mean just being in the water and letting your skin absorb the minerals (not actually drinking the sea water)

 

[Scenes]

Would it take say 30 minutes of ocean swimming every day for 3 weeks (say we aren't fasting) until we see results? And by ocean swimming you mean just being in the water and letting your skin absorb the minerals (not actually drinking the sea water)

Let me help you here brother...

He’s mentioned on many occasions that fasting combined with swimming in the ocean will rejuvenate and heal a vast range of conditions. The absorption of minerals/electrolytes is a huge component of this, but I think also just keeping active and using up co2 is important. He says he swims actively, not just floating around...2km ocean swims if you’re good enough!

In terms of timelines to see results, I think you’ll find he’s reluctant to give any exact responses because people respond differently and there’s a fair bit of variation in our starting points and body chemistries - we’re all testament to that here.

What he has said is fast and ocean swim for 40 days and you’ll be a new person.

 

[Jaxx]

Basically if your calcium levels are normal or high on the hairtest, IMO this says that you are not low on copper. this is why 4 highs or 3 highs are so tricky on the hairtest.

ARL does give copper in those cases , and people feel bad on it at first. just imagine normal calcium , high potassium high sodium , high magnesium. A lot of people with dysregulation from fin, accutane etc have this.

If calcium is not low when potassium is high, this always means slow oxidation. Potassium is high since cortisol is sky high. body thinks it is in fast oxidation and wastes more and more potassium from the cell. ARL does give copper in this case. with all other nutrients including zinc. And people do feel bad slowing down at first.

I am not sure about copper in those cases. It is more of a MAO problem. that breaks down serotonin. MAO produces aldehydes so to break those people need b2 and molybdenum

Moclobemide actually gave me a full 1 week window where everything was fine. Didnt last though, simular experience with SJW. Would cycling help perhaps are you suggest additional minerals/vitamins?

 

[Helen]

Do you know any cases where its preferable to take "active b2" (R5p or FMN) instead of just normal riboflavine?

You need FAD. And fad is made only when moly and selenium are working

 

[Steve]

Let me help you here brother...

He’s mentioned on many occasions that fasting combined with swimming in the ocean will rejuvenate and heal a vast range of conditions. The absorption of minerals/electrolytes is a huge component of this, but I think also just keeping active and using up co2 is important. He says he swims actively, not just floating around...2km ocean swims if you’re good enough!

In terms of timelines to see results, I think you’ll find he’s reluctant to give any exact responses because people respond differently and there’s a fair bit of variation in our starting points and body chemistries - we’re all testament to that here.

What he has said is fast and ocean swim for 40 days and you’ll be a new person.

I'm just wondering though whether swimming in the ocean on its own will help without fasting? Am I wasting my time if I'm not fasting?

 

[Helen]

I'm just wondering though whether swimming in the ocean on its own will help without fasting? Am I wasting my time if I'm not fasting?

Swimming in the ocean is really good for you , you are not wasting any time