RWAC's PFS log (on the TEI train)

[RebelWithACause]

RWAC have you ever tested for 3adiolG?
Forget gods prayers and mindset...
Forget also hormonal imbalances.

The REAL PFS its a cell mechanics problem.

Have you ever test this metabolite?
Its the only real indication for PFS.
Only if your body CANT use DHT properly you can say that you have PFS.

Or else you have just an imbalance that can be fixed easily.

My 3adiolG is 5.8 which is 4 times lower than normal for my age.
Thats not a hormonal imbalance according to European pioneers in Endocrinology.

Its a kind of induced androgen resistance.

I have heard 100's theories and none of them fixed anything for anyone. Except for gbolduev's suggestions. But even with his suggestions I do not know what made it work. That makes it useless to talk about in my eyes.

I do not care one bit about things I cannot change. I do care about the things I can. I don't care about doctors or people that measure things. Who knows what's normal? These are numbers.

Most people in medical world do not give a fuck about you or me. Or people with PFS. They do not care and do not have the answers. Even people on the forums cannot help you in real life. So you have to fix yourself as much as you are capable of. One way to do this and to keep going is by adopting a strong mindset so that you do not give up and try pushing back. Try making everyday worth it. There is no other way. Your mind will show the way. EVEN CDNUTS SAID THIS. AND HE IS RIGHT. I see it. I feel sorry for the people that do not.

There is a reason why some people commit suicide and other people that always seem optimistic no matter what. No matter how bad it gets. They keep pushing.

This is difference between victim mindset and winner mindset.

From what I see: the guys that got fixed focussed on recovery, diet and mindset. Most guys that recovered had a positive mindset. They kept their head up as much as possible. I did that too although sometimes I would get depressed. It is normal. Then day after that you do it again, you keep head up, and again, and again and again.

I don't give a shit if my 3adiolG is low or high. What does it matter? Does it make you fixed if you know that information?

Mindset is more important then people think. People approach body as if it is separate from the mind. The body influence mind but the mind can also influence the body.

Also a lot of PFS guys are scared to let go of their PFS label. They have made an identity around it. This is their life now. I will never call myself PFS sufferer or victim. Because I am not identifying as one. You see this with every disease. People start identifying as if they are only the person with the sickness. And they stay stuck. They do not seem to get out of it. Because your brain becomes cognitive biased towards this. You put yourself in mental prison. You unconsciously reject the answers in front of you and keep yourself locked in mental prison.

When I was at my worst I limited my exposure to people with PFS as much as possible because it rubs off on you. You get in a bubble with other victims. And you become one yourself. Most of my bad days were because I read too much on forums.

I don't want to argue with you if I had real PFS. My symptoms matched 1000's of others. I saw this on Propeciahelp forum too. Victims trying to out-victim eachother. Sad!

I wish you and others good luck and quick recovery. If you ever need suggestion or someone to talk to let me know. For upcoming time I will not visit forums too much and focus on testosterone recovery so I might not answer back quick.

TL/DR; get the mind right and your body will follow

 

[Niles]

TL/DR; get the mind right and your body will follow

This sentiment is common to almost every full recovery story out there, and I don't understand why some still write it off as nonsense. There's definitely more to recovery than mindset, but without the right mindset recovery is not possible. Simply put, if you feel hopeless you will be hopeless.

 

[aztec]

@RebelWithACause well said. We must always strengthen our hope and resilience amidst any trial or tribulation. This will become the greatest remedy. With faith all is possible. Always believe in healing your mind, body, and spirit guys.

 

[Admiral]

This sentiment is common to almost every full recovery story out there, and I don't understand why some still write it off as nonsense. There's definitely more to recovery than mindset, but without the right mindset recovery is not possible. Simply put, if you feel hopeless you will be hopeless.

Because it's not easy. I've had PFS for nearly 15 years and seeing your body deteriorate so rapidly makes it rather hard. It's not easy to keep a positive mindset when you look and feel like 60 when you should be in the spring of your life. I like RWAC as much as anyone, but try living in this hell hole for 15 years. I've had the most positieve mindset for the first 10 years and still do today. But it's a fight each and every day, especially when you look in the mirror or when you hear your friends talk about marriage and having kids.

Not sure about that little rant there, need to vent from time to time. Love you all!

 

[RebelWithACause]

Because it's not easy. I've had PFS for nearly 15 years and seeing your body deteriorate so rapidly makes it rather hard. It's not easy to keep a positive mindset when you look and feel like 60 when you should be in the spring of your life. I like RWAC as much as anyone, but try living in this hell hole for 15 years. I've had the most positieve mindset for the first 10 years and still do today. But it's a fight each and every day, especially when you look in the mirror or when you hear your friends talk about marriage and having kids.

Not sure about that little rant there, need to vent from time to time. Love you all!

OK this is gonna be my last post for a while LOL.

You are a good dude, I know that. Ranting is not bad. But make sure it does not consume your mind. Because it eats you from the inside. Try to eliminate it as much as possible. It works opposite as magnet. The more you do it the less people want to talk to you and be around you. Keep it to yourself and focus on other things. Go punch something or shout in a pillow.

I am not here to talk fake uplifting motivational talk. This is real talk.

I respect you that you keep going. I hope you respect yourself for that too. You will get through it. That is what is important. Yes it is hard. And it will stay hard. Even after you beat this other things will happen. And you will think when does it end. It never ends. It is all subjective when you are experiencing bad shit. Just like when you get cancer. You wish to live 1 more day. Or 1 more year. Or when you are completely disabled after being run over by a car. You wish you could just walk. Even if it was just for 1 day!

These things happen to humans on a daily basis.

While someone else might not have to deal with any big health issues at all his whole life. He/she might be depressed because someone unliked his/her instagram page. LOL This is the funny thing about life.

I do not care about this anymore. I am over that because it is a mental prison. I think it is a funny and cruel thing about life.

Your life was not meant to be anything. "You should be in the spring of your life" Yes we wish. Until reality hits. We make mistakes and put ourself into danger (PFS) or we get a disease or we get run over by a car, etc. It is all possible. This is your reality. This is your story. You are not someone else. So now you deal with this. And the way you deal with it with the mind is going to affect the outcome. This is why it is important to have a good mindset. It is not bullshit. People who say it is bullshit are people with negative mindset. They do not want to see it. Because it frustrates them. They have zero faith in their own capability and power. I think this is because of how we are raised. We are raised as slaves for society.

I do not take life too serious anymore. I believe we live in a simulation. Even when I feel bad I laugh at myself for being grumpy and anxious. I do not feel 100% connected to myself anymore. I am not attached to the outcome. What happens happens. I can lower my ego to see how funny my situation sometimes is. Even if it is really bad. There is always something funny about it. The things I can change I will attempt to change.

When I am dead I am certain I will not notice it. Dead is dead. I am not scared of death. Death to me is unplugging the power and that was that. Poof.

If I die and I suffered to the end I do not feel bad about that. I accept all suffering and bad shit happening to me. I change the things I can change.

Yes 15 years is a long time. But you could of already been dead. So now you put all energy to getting better. That is the only goal.

 

[EsQimo]

I have heard 100's theories and none of them fixed anything for anyone. Except for gbolduev's suggestions. But even with his suggestions I do not know what made it work. That makes it useless to talk about in my eyes.

I do not care one bit about things I cannot change. I do care about the things I can. I don't care about doctors or people that measure things. Who knows what's normal? These are numbers.

Most people in medical world do not give a fuck about you or me. Or people with PFS. They do not care and do not have the answers. Even people on the forums cannot help you in real life. So you have to fix yourself as much as you are capable of. One way to do this and to keep going is by adopting a strong mindset so that you do not give up and try pushing back. Try making everyday worth it. There is no other way. Your mind will show the way. EVEN CDNUTS SAID THIS. AND HE IS RIGHT. I see it. I feel sorry for the people that do not.

There is a reason why some people commit suicide and other people that always seem optimistic no matter what. No matter how bad it gets. They keep pushing.

This is difference between victim mindset and winner mindset.

From what I see: the guys that got fixed focussed on recovery, diet and mindset. Most guys that recovered had a positive mindset. They kept their head up as much as possible. I did that too although sometimes I would get depressed. It is normal. Then day after that you do it again, you keep head up, and again, and again and again.

I don't give a shit if my 3adiolG is low or high. What does it matter? Does it make you fixed if you know that information?

Mindset is more important then people think. People approach body as if it is separate from the mind. The body influence mind but the mind can also influence the body.

Also a lot of PFS guys are scared to let go of their PFS label. They have made an identity around it. This is their life now. I will never call myself PFS sufferer or victim. Because I am not identifying as one. You see this with every disease. People start identifying as if they are only the person with the sickness. And they stay stuck. They do not seem to get out of it. Because your brain becomes cognitive biased towards this. You put yourself in mental prison. You unconsciously reject the answers in front of you and keep yourself locked in mental prison.

When I was at my worst I limited my exposure to people with PFS as much as possible because it rubs off on you. You get in a bubble with other victims. And you become one yourself. Most of my bad days were because I read too much on forums.

I don't want to argue with you if I had real PFS. My symptoms matched 1000's of others. I saw this on Propeciahelp forum too. Victims trying to out-victim eachother. Sad!

I wish you and others good luck and quick recovery. If you ever need suggestion or someone to talk to let me know. For upcoming time I will not visit forums too much and focus on testosterone recovery so I might not answer back quick.

TL/DR; get the mind right and your body will follow

I strongly disagree and let me tell you why.

Mindset doesnt even matter.
My best friend has depression 6 years now.
He is on drugs. Ladose, Xanax and another one that I cant remember the name (something for Schizo)
He never lost his libido, like millions of other ppl who are suicidal.

I have a positive mindset and I feel better than be depressed.
Im not depressed despite the situation.
But that does not change anything.
Still my cells cant use DHT.
If my cells of certain organs(prostate/ epididym etc) will not use DHT i will be stuck with PFS indefinetely.
Even if Im everyday on LSD and the happiest man alive.

The problem is that every RARE side effect from finasteride, we call it PFS.
Some ppl got better with antioxidants, others with hormones, others with SSRI, others with minerals progesterone herbs even with Tomato juice.
How is posible the one who got better with SSRIs had the same disease with the other that got better with tomato juice cycling??

How is possible that the one who got better in 6 months had the same disease with the one who is stucked here for 15 years?
Its not the same disease.
Its a "bunch" of diseases.

Thats why ppl accuse others in forums that they didnt had PFS.
Because its a shame to read post from ppl supporting that they won PFS with Caffeine or praying to God.
Its just rediculus.

You dont give a shit of your 3aDiolG is high or low. Right...
So if your total testosterone was 120 and you were suffering from all sexual sides, would you give a shit?
I bet that you would.
You would visit an Endocrinologist for HRT or TRT.

In PFS the only hormone that all PFSers have LOW with NO exception is 3aDiolG.

There are pplwho have 800 testosterone 0.90 DHT and 3aDiolG of a 14 yo girl. (1-2 pg insdead of 20-25)
That indicates that even if your DHT is extremely high for an UNKNOWN reason your cells cant use it.
Thats why you have read over 100's theories.
Because all those theories (Mutation, methylation, Androgen resistance, Dolichol deprivation theory, HSP70 deficiency, AR downregulation)
Every theory have to do with the inability of the body to use DHT.
Even the theories in hackstasis with Progesterone Receptor and minerals, they have as a goal to activate AR.
Τhey end up to AR downregulation.

It helps to be positive ofc.
Im positive.
I am trying things and i wont quit.
I live a normal life, i go out with my friends and I am trying to enjoy life despite PFS.
Im asking thing and I am learning things from this forum.

If a someone has diabetes,prayers wont keep him alive.
Insulin will.
Sad but true.

 

[Niles]

OK this is gonna be my last post for a while LOL.

You are a good dude, I know that. Ranting is not bad. But make sure it does not consume your mind. Because it eats you from the inside. Try to eliminate it as much as possible. It works opposite as magnet. The more you do it the less people want to talk to you and be around you. Keep it to yourself and focus on other things. Go punch something or shout in a pillow.

I am not here to talk fake uplifting motivational talk. This is real talk.

I respect you that you keep going. I hope you respect yourself for that too. You will get through it. That is what is important. Yes it is hard. And it will stay hard. Even after you beat this other things will happen. And you will think when does it end. It never ends. It is all subjective when you are experiencing bad shit. Just like when you get cancer. You wish to live 1 more day. Or 1 more year. Or when you are completely disabled after being run over by a car. You wish you could just walk. Even if it was just for 1 day!

These things happen to humans on a daily basis.

While someone else might not have to deal with any big health issues at all his whole life. He/she might be depressed because someone unliked his/her instagram page. LOL This is the funny thing about life.

I do not care about this anymore. I am over that because it is a mental prison. I think it is a funny and cruel thing about life.

Your life was not meant to be anything. "You should be in the spring of your life" Yes we wish. Until reality hits. We make mistakes and put ourself into danger (PFS) or we get a disease or we get run over by a car, etc. It is all possible. This is your reality. This is your story. You are not someone else. So now you deal with this. And the way you deal with it with the mind is going to affect the outcome. This is why it is important to have a good mindset. It is not bullshit. People who say it is bullshit are people with negative mindset. They do not want to see it. Because it frustrates them. They have zero faith in their own capability and power. I think this is because of how we are raised. We are raised as slaves for society.

I do not take life too serious anymore. I believe we live in a simulation. Even when I feel bad I laugh at myself for being grumpy and anxious. I do not feel 100% connected to myself anymore. I am not attached to the outcome. What happens happens. I can lower my ego to see how funny my situation sometimes is. Even if it is really bad. There is always something funny about it. The things I can change I will attempt to change.

When I am dead I am certain I will not notice it. Dead is dead. I am not scared of death. Death to me is unplugging the power and that was that. Poof.

If I die and I suffered to the end I do not feel bad about that. I accept all suffering and bad shit happening to me. I change the things I can change.

Yes 15 years is a long time. But you could of already been dead. So now you put all energy to getting better. That is the only goal.

This insight is golden. Suffering is always relative, and we will always suffer. For example, before PFS I cried over my hair loss, even though I was probably the only person in the world who even realized I was losing hair. I thought my life was over. Of course this seems vain, stupid and petty in hindsight, but at the time my suffering was just as real as my suffering is now with PFS. The only way to stop the cycle of suffering is to not identify with it, which in this case would mean not identifying as a PFS victim. I have to remind myself constantly that even on my worst days I still have the ability to contribute so much to the world, and I still have much more afforded to me than many who are less fortunate. This is a mindset I have to reinforce several times every day, because we are hardwired to have a scarcity mindset, but it does get easier and almost automatic with practice. Anxiety, worrying, sadness, and depression are connected to hormonal/neurochemical balance by a two-way street. Of course nobody will ever be cured by mindset alone, but it is one of the most powerful tools available to us.

 

[Niles]

Mindset doesnt even matter.

It helps to be positive ofc

Which do you believe? Nobody will tell you you can cure yourself with mindset alone, but a poor mindset will absolutely hinder progress. You can adopt behaviors that stabilize your mental state and make your mind stress-resistant, which creates a healthy environment in which your body is better able to return to homeostasis. If this weren't true, then cognitive behavioral therapists would be out of work.

 

[EsQimo]

Which do you believe? Nobody will tell you you can cure yourself with mindset alone, but a poor mindset will absolutely hinder progress. You can adopt behaviors that stabilize your mental state and make your mind stress-resistant, which creates a healthy environment in which your body is better able to return to homeostasis. If this weren't true, then cognitive behavioral therapists would be out of work.

I mean it helps to be positive for your general health.
I lost 8kg the first month in PFS from sadness.
But the mindset will not cure you alone...
Thats true also.

Man Im already stress resistant.
My gf has lymphoma since January and my father has diagnosed with stomach cancer last week.
Im calm like an Indian cow.

I genuinely believe that PFS is such a difficult condition that when we get cured, nothing will be able to touch us for the rest of our lives.

Im already immune to everything.

 

[MNK99]

Great post above there, man @RWAC.
I do tend to think it's woo woo. But I can keep it up when very motivated.

For all my major issues/challenges.
-the Visualization of being better and also
-the positive affirmations.
-when she realized that I was so cynical
Underneath the jokes, my psychologist told me to write down 3 positive affirmations
Per day. External... Or internal and not shallow bs like looks / doing well... But actually good stuff in the world or that happened around you.
-I think they're sup o be external.
-Also ADDers/ADHDers need to work on internal motivation to regulate their behaviours, I believe as well..
-Timed tasks/ some small (non addictive) reward system / gamefying things may help.
-that you experienced.

Those 3things and meditation and sleeping earlier and at least 5-6 h per day is something I need to work on.

And you're obv correct a lot of bad events befall much of humanity. I try to strive to be better rather than wish things were "easier", BC there will always be problems/challenges in life.

Overcoming this type of thing makes one way stronger so does having to deal with issues all the time (if learned to overcome and not stay in same vicious cycles).

I'm not super spiritual but try at times.
I like the Tao The Ching.

Not in a religious way but if every star has a planet, then we are insignificant... Some find that motivational, I don't know but basically a lot of stuff is bs and ppl caused, and if you don't let that or bad things that happen to you, cause fear, anxiety, depression @anger, negative means of coping, then you're fine. Esp if you only take calculated risks (`which for me fin was not bc it's clear, I react to LOTS of meds badly). Not to dwell on past.





super strong, never sick, one mistake or one accident can change everything. People have way less than a lot of us (not to generalize) but are probably happier than some. This isn't a lecture on being happy, I'm just saying, I notice at times in my own personal life. Like an aunt who has a great medical career, and a son in law who got in at the peak (economic returns), and she lost her husband v young, had life threatening illnesses, knee operations, son got divorced, etc etc, and she's way happier and funnier and more positive than a lotpeople I've interacted with.

Like tons of people from Asia, Africa, Europe too etc, my dad had literally nothing, no real valid education and started from the bottom. His dad was gone when he was around 10, and his mom was uneducated. They had to move from the city to a village. He had no money for shoes nor milk or anything.

Sure, even in Canada as a mature adult, there's been money stress and he missed out on a lot but all the stuff he went thru trying to get here and his uncle etc (who took a ship and got tuberculosis I don't know how many decades ago), then there's gotta be a way to fix this for us in much of the west. And everywhere in the modern world.


Mindset better matter o/w I'm fucked even after beating PFS (which will occur).

People only see what you let them -ive had best friends who never quite understood wtf was wrong with me. Fheyre just like "smoke weed" /"bang more girls"/"do what makes you happy"/ "when I see you I don't see anything wrong", They didn't "get it", thought I was just a spoiled, neurotic kid (anxious, ditzy, etc). But I went thru way more than most of them. I see close familials that have a lot of what I want, but one mistake can ruin them too, and anyone... Not to be scared but no one is untouchable. Life is a series of changes, many uncontrollable, and some controllable.


Coping mechanisms, social support, resolve, and time... Are key. DISCIPLINE - Following some sort of (personal) CODE is mandatory for success in this bs world.

(And I guess love also). And self-love first.

 

[Aflac94]

Wow great posts. I think both @RebelWithACause and @EsQimo make good points. Different points. Thank you both

 

[RebelWithACause]

For people worried about why I am back on forums.

Here is update.

Subjectively I would say I am out of PFS. I have no brainfog, anxiety, panic, etc. anymore. Alcohol works again (in beginning PFS state it did not), I digest food very well - no bloating or crash feeling, I sleep well, I can have sex, etc. I can live life very well.

Objectively (as much as possible) it could be that there are still some small lingering problems. Which I will address and hopefully fix in next few months.

To me it feels like very mild low estrogen side effects.

Even on anabolic steroids I sometimes felt lower estrogen side effects. Even though I was using 300mg of testosterone enanthate. Which should convert a lot to estradiol (E2). But this could also be genetic. I have talked to other guys having same problem and they never touched finasteride. Some guys just don't aromatise a lot at all.

I can say I was/am not 100% back to alpha beast mode 2000, A.K.A. when I was at my peak performance and mental feeling when I was 21-23.

Now this could have to do with several things.

Maybe my hormones were raging back then (I jumped on finasteride at age 23 - I am 26 now. I do not think this is the case. At 26-35+ I should be able to have good hormones in my opinion. But I have heard stories of guys jumping on TRT at 25.

Maybe my hormones did not recover completely. I did TRT before right after going off finasteride and it can take a while before natural testosterone is back.

Maybe I am still in PFS state even though most side effects are gone.

Maybe my estrogen was higher before I touched finasteride and maybe because I do not aromatise much this is now taking a long time to go back to normal. Especially when total testosterone is low.

So now we move on with the journey. To fix this to the core. First recovery from AAS. Then I will see what symptoms I have etc. Maybe it will be fixed. I will follow electrolyte protocol by gbolduev.

I am 100% sure I will recover.

 

[bruschi11]

For people worried about why I am back on forums.

Here is update.

Subjectively I would say I am out of PFS. I have no brainfog, anxiety, panic, etc. anymore. Alcohol works again (in beginning PFS state it did not), I digest food very well - no bloating or crash feeling, I sleep well, I can have sex, etc. I can live life very well.

Objectively (as much as possible) it could be that there are still some small lingering problems. Which I will address and hopefully fix in next few months.

To me it feels like very mild low estrogen side effects.

Even on anabolic steroids I sometimes felt lower estrogen side effects. Even though I was using 300mg of testosterone enanthate. Which should convert a lot to estradiol (E2). But this could also be genetic. I have talked to other guys having same problem and they never touched finasteride. Some guys just don't aromatise a lot at all.

I can say I was/am not 100% back to alpha beast mode 2000, A.K.A. when I was at my peak performance and mental feeling when I was 21-23.

Now this could have to do with several things.

Maybe my hormones were raging back then (I jumped on finasteride at age 23 - I am 26 now. I do not think this is the case. At 26-35+ I should be able to have good hormones in my opinion. But I have heard stories of guys jumping on TRT at 25.

Maybe my hormones did not recover completely. I did TRT before right after going off finasteride and it can take a while before natural testosterone is back.

Maybe I am still in PFS state even though most side effects are gone.

Maybe my estrogen was higher before I touched finasteride and maybe because I do not aromatise much this is now taking a long time to go back to normal. Especially when total testosterone is low.

So now we move on with the journey. To fix this to the core. First recovery from AAS. Then I will see what symptoms I have etc. Maybe it will be fixed. I will follow electrolyte protocol by gbolduev.

I am 100% sure I will recover.

Ihatepropecia702 on propeciahelp had problems with anabolic steroids after writing his recovery story. He did a whole year of crazy gut health stuff that fixed him in like 2013 or so.

But months or year after recovery he got into the steroids and would say it basically activated his pfs again. But he was fine when he would stop steroids.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Ihatepropecia702 on propeciahelp had problems with anabolic steroids after writing his recovery story. He did a whole year of crazy gut health stuff that fixed him in like 2013 or so.

But months or year after recovery he got into the steroids and would say it basically activated his pfs again. But he was fine when he would stop steroids.

Hmm weird. Maybe I am same.

I have read more guys have this problem without using finasteride ever. They don't feel good on anabolic steroids. Especially exogenous testosterone. Their libido drops immediately and feel depressed. Even with good estrogen values. This guy I know does not run testosterone at all when he cycles and he feels better like that.

I hope to recover ASAP.

 

[TubZy]

Hmm weird. Maybe I am same.

I have read more guys have this problem without using finasteride ever. They don't feel good on anabolic steroids. Especially exogenous testosterone. Their libido drops immediately and feel depressed. Even with good estrogen values. This guy I know does not run testosterone at all when he cycles and he feels better like that.

I hope to recover ASAP.

I never use testosterone when I cycled. I always preferred using things standalone at least the stuff I tried (superdrol, masteron, anavar). I think the hype in the BB community that everything needs to be with testosterone is way over blown. I don't even like test TBH. I only tried masteron post PFS though. Superdrol I took Pre fin and felt low energy wise but great mentally.

All these PFS people that tried anadrol (saw a few old logs) or even superdrol (haven't seen any logs for PFSers) take it with test. It was rumored that anadrol and superdrol upregulate the estrogen receptor despite being considered non aromatizable since some people get gyno from it. It would be interesting to see a PFS person so superdrol or anadrol only cycle with no test and come off it and see how they feel. That is what I concluded why superdrol put me in a hyperandrogenic state due to the upregulation of ER which triggered DHT.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I never use testosterone when I cycled. I always preferred using things standalone at least the stuff I tried (superdrol, masteron, anavar). I think the hype in the BB community that everything needs to be with testosterone is way over blown. I don't even like test TBH. I only tried masteron post PFS though. Superdrol I took Pre fin and felt low energy wise but great mentally.

All these PFS people that tried anadrol (saw a few old logs) or even superdrol (haven't seen any logs for PFSers) take it with test. It was rumored that anadrol and superdrol upregulate the estrogen receptor despite being considered non aromatizable since some people get gyno from it. It would be interesting to see a PFS person so superdrol or anadrol only cycle with no test and come off it and see how they feel. That is what I concluded why superdrol put me in a hyperandrogenic state due to the upregulation of ER which triggered DHT.

Yea I also tried masteron, proviron but all with testosterone right after I got off finasteride. I never felt great on any of it. I felt better but not same as before using finasteride. Felt kinda like a robot. Did nothing for libido.

I don't like anabolic steroids anymore. I am not touching steroids again, ever. It is very hard on the mind. Especially when you feel like shit on it. I get a lot of energy but I feel like shit. So you have so much energy but you also feel like dogshit at same time.

Right now I have symptoms:

emotional flatness, OCD-ish, sometimes negative thoughts, low libido, chest muscle contracts/spasms and legs spasm. I do not feel stressed. I feel pretty much low estrogen. No nipple sensitivity, not emotional, etc. I feel different from PFS though. PFS was worse. But maybe these are lingering symptoms that anabolic steroids trigger. I don't know.

 

[JasonSky]

@RebelWithACause

Did you do nofap when you went through recovery the first time?

And you'll recover again for sure, you have that killer attitude

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause

Did you do nofap when you went through recovery the first time?

And you'll recover again for sure, you have that killer attitude

Yes I did NoFap. Very helpful in my opinion. Masturbation for me kills my spirit and will to live. Although it can make you more tense and anxious from time to time. But I rather have that then feel lifeless. Try it if you don't.

Even on anabolic steroids I do not masturbate. Although it has less impact than when you are natural.

 

[RebelWithACause]

So just gonna just this topic instead of other one.

Update 1 - Road to recovery, the calm before the storm:

Next week I have vacation and week after that too. Hopefully I will have the worst feelings in these next two weeks. Exogonous testosterone will be out of my body in 1,5-2 weeks. Or at least at very low levels.

I will be drinking coffee even though it is not good for me. Purely to counteract some of low dopamine symptoms and low energy levels.

I have read guys who went off cold turkey they felt very shitty for a few days and after that they felt better except for energy levels. This slowly comes back in 2-3 months.

I can take low libido but getting extremely depressed and anxious is something I want to avoid.

I am going to train 2-3 times a week in the morning very short and intense. 20-30 minutes MAX. Low volume compound excercises. Purely for recovery. I do not care if I lose muscle. I am going to eat enough the maintain some weight.

I will be doing electrolyte protocol.

 

[Aflac94]

Good luck! you have the recovery mind set locked in.

Also I notice the same, with noFAP. More drive if I hold off, but it really relieves anxiety so I don’t noFAP. Plus if I hold of too long it just come out at night anyway in dream.