Sonic Hedgehog PFS Log

[Go_faster_Sonic]

Hello, as TubZy told me, i made a group conversation (is this a log?).
I'm new here, a guy told me about this place.
I apologize if this bother you but i'm looking for help and by now i'm very very confused (and scared, of course).
I read the first page of the electrolyte protocol so, maybe, i read the pfs protocol, right?

I took finasteride for 14 years till this february cause i found myself:
- depressed
- suicidal
- anxiety
- tremors
- insomnia
- tinnitus
- dry skin
- face fat loss
- panic attacks
- obsessivity
I quit Fin on february.

Now i'm on:
- 10 mg escitalopram (an ssri);
- 20 drops per night of Trazodone (if i don't take it, i don't sleep);
- on alternate days, a solution containing 1% progesterone, 0,02% estrone, 0,04% hydrocortisone butyrate. My dermatologist says that is absolutely safe. What do you think? Can i follow the protocol and keep on taking care of my hairs? I feel like i would get more depressed losing my hairs...

Now i'm really confused, because:
1. i already found the cd nuts protocol on the web, so... what should i do? in this situation two protocols are two much protocols
2. this protocol looks so... ehm... technical? i still don't understand what to do, in practice. It looks like a chemistry lesson. If i did understand well, i just need to do a hair test and someone will tell me what to eat and which medications take, right? Just this? Nothing else? Is this the cure?
3. should i ask a doctor to follow me doing this? And what type of doctor? My family doctor thinks i'm crazy.

So, this is the situation. What should i do, step by step?
Thank you.
Sonic

p.s. my hormones, after i quit propecia, checked out fine.

@TubZy @Goose12 @Raincoast @Scenes @Nina @HerrFisch @mattyb @aztec @Orion @m_arch @IHateFin

 

[barbaar]

If you can, start by very slowly tapering off that SSRI. A lot of us here, myself included, are here because we got messed up because of them.

 

[Go_faster_Sonic]

If you can, start by very slowly tapering off that SSRI. A lot of us here, myself included, are here because we got messed up because of them.

are you a pfs too?

 

[barbaar]

are you a pfs too?

No, PSSD. A similar thing caused by SSRIs instead of finasteride

 

[Niles]

That topical you're using could potentially cause some issues. You definitely don't want to be exposed to that stuff long-term, so I think you should look for an alternative that doesn't include exogenous hormones or 5ari.

 

[Go_faster_Sonic]

If i try to slowly remove di ssri, i start feeling suicidal again.

 

[Go_faster_Sonic]

That topical you're using could potentially cause some issues. You definitely don't want to be exposed to that stuff long-term, so I think you should look for an alternative that doesn't include exogenous hormones or 5ari.

what do you suggest?

 

[Niles]

It may sounds too simple, but using a sea salt scrub on my scalp and washing my hair only in cold water helps my shedding a lot. There's many other things suggested on this site as well, if you search around a bit.

 

[bruschi11]

You are prime example of pharmaceutical prince haha. Your doctors have you on everything.

Essentially if you are interested in getting better, following this forum you need to take naturalistic approach. Some things pharamaceutical may help you at beginning of your journey like antibiotics or antidepressant, but eventually you need to go natural.

So you can’t sleep? At first I’d say try mirtazapine or cyproheptadine( lighter) to get you on pace if an antidepressant is really needed at first.

That said, have you considered fasting yet? Like @Cdsnuts will tell you- wouldn’t be a bad idea to fast yourself off the road pharms you are on. You could see half your symptoms disappear from one 14-21 day fast.

 

[Go_faster_Sonic]

You are prime example of pharmaceutical prince haha. Your doctors have you on everything.

Essentially if you are interested in getting better, following this forum you need to take naturalistic approach. Some things pharamaceutical may help you at beginning of your journey like antibiotics or antidepressant, but eventually you need to go natural.

So you can’t sleep? At first I’d say try mirtazapine or cyproheptadine( lighter) to get you on pace if an antidepressant is really needed at first.

That said, have you considered fasting yet? Like @Cdsnuts will tell you- wouldn’t be a bad idea to fast yourself off the road pharms you are on. You could see half your symptoms disappear from one 14-21 day fast.

Hi, thank you for the answer, as since many months i'm feeling bad again, i mean almost suicidal.
To sleep i'm taking trazodone.
Yes, i'd like to fast but i'm on these drugs, so... how is it possible? Juice feast? Raw food? There's a doctor here in italy who put some guys on raw food.
Talking about fasting, i sent an email to the true north health center, i'd prefer to stay somewhere and not alone, they called me back, told me that in order to fast i should drop the medications, and i agree, of course, but if i drop antipdepresants i start feeling suicidal again, and if i drop trazodone i do not sleep at all. They told me to say this to their psychologist who, of course, can't help because he is a pshychologist! So they anwsered me that i should pay for a phone call to talk to someone. So, i want to be their customer but they're not trying to get me there!

About @Cdsnuts , is he the CDnuts of total male optimization?

I know i should go natural, that's what i want, but that thread about the electrolyte looks like a whishlist of a scientist, it is so hard to understand...

I started the cd nuts protocol without fasting cause i could not fast and i saw improvements till the day i got groin while excercising, and now i feel horrible again.

So, again, where should i start from? Hair test? raw food? juice? true north? this is too much for a suffering guy.

 

[MNK99]

-Shortened. TL;DR:

I did things like this to get better:
Fasting refeed randro 4 Andro Ella Ru ,
Ru prog, fasted training, etc are things that I tried. Eventually ARL. I have the results but need to space things out and focus on career/study/money stuff for a time.
)


-Basically, less meds = better.
-They never treat the root cause (that they, the docs don't even know about).
-I've met a total of 1 doctor that understands or wants to, how each drug affects each of my disorders. My main doctor literally says :"you know more about this than me."
-So, I can't recommend most Antidepressants (AD's). Several here liked Mirtazapine.

The thing is polypharmacy leads to side effects that "I've never heard of" as per the doctor's handbook. And fin most likely has already done enough damage.
-SSRI's/SNRI's are "sledgehammers", they aren't targeted like opioids or amps, meth, cocaine, etc. Those commercials which retard g.p.'s believe ... Aren't correct. They can't name all the neurotransmitters nor explain why anything works, so life and death shouldn't be in Pharma's hands and by proxy a doctor who likely doesn't give a fuck.

Probably NOT in your current state****
And def not on an antidepressant. Medical Marijuana for depression may be an option. Coming from someone that actually hated it with great reason, it's more helpful than any meds mostly, doesn't change who I am nor cause unforseen tragic events.

As Bruschi11 said, fasting could get rid of a lot of your symptoms potentially.

Fasting saved my life from that and it makes sense for my actual normal dx's when healthy, with no PFS.
Targeted dopamine agonists, NRI, etc drugs don't do what these do.

Suicide rates up drastically since AD's blew up the market.

Anyways, if anyone should be on an antidepressant it's someone with 30-40% suicide rates in their disorders + PFS depression ...
Which I was suffering from but no more. I.e. per my diagnosis (psychiatric). And Medical Cannabis actually does help whereas all the medical/legit options will mess me up.

Read Concerned's log perhaps.

-Due to finasteride
-I tried to overdose among other things BC of fin... Suicidal thoughts are chemically caused by this shit drug... Coming from someone who supposedly has bipolar, but afaik was NEVER accutely suicidal outside of cosmetic or psyche meds. SO yes, fasting helped depression / suicidal thoughts. This was FINASTERIDE-caused.

If I saw bipolar specialist that dx'd me gee I wonder what they would come up with? Worsening cycles, rapid cycling. And then when I'm brain damaged from AAP's, then what functionally retarded? "it was genetic", they'll say. As you can tell I fucking hate their bs system and was damn good looking, smart, and productive without them. Marijuana is illegal in many places, cigarettes are cool. So are guns, they aren't on our side.

Slow taper as others have said.
Not suicidal anymore. Was by treating one medications side effects with another (fin).
I know you aren't on fin anymore.

I did things like this to get better:
Fasting refeed randro 4 Andro Ella Ru ,
Ru prog, fasted training, etc are things that I tried. Eventually ARL. I have the results but need to space things out and focus on career/study/money stuff for a time.

 

[Go_faster_Sonic]

It's not that bad what you're on, but I do wince with the hair topicals and ad (and fin) when I see it sometimes.

I used Spiro, pre fin (besides watery ejaculate) worked amazingly well for me (diffuse thinning).

As I got a bit better from PFS, I (stupidly) considered topical fin. Mentioned this to my brother (a surgeon) and he said no fucking way... He remembered the cream I used before, and I reminded him what it was (Spiro), and he said don't use that either (easy to say after the fact).

Even if there's 1/25 antidepressants that would work for me (super unlikely given proper diagnoses), the fear of ever returning to how I was on one, effexor makes me say no. It would make no sense anyways as stims and mood stabilizers (no) would make way more sense for me.

And I'd still not take those. Before PFS, I was scared to take protopic, hydrocortisone, etc. My bro, told me to WAIT until 30 to take retin-A. I waited til I was like 27 bc I figured it would counter amphetamine, alcohol, etc damage (mostly long gone).

This may be a bad idea....
As per my dual dx it's mostly considered a HORRIBLE idea (but annecdotal patient responses and emerging research and some doc's say otherwise).

If you've never had paranoia, mania, bad reactions to psyche meds (esp antidepressants), then it's probably less dangerous for you than me. So while it's not a suggestion, I just think AT least, there's no post drug disorder / crazy effects to deal with (many unimaginable).

I DO think it's fin tho causing most of the symptoms.

And*** I do think that it's important to quell suicidal thoughts, even if I am anti pharma, so maybe ad isn't a bad idea for your situation. That seems like a low dose.

The thing is polypharmacy leads to side effects that "I've never heard of" as per the doctor's handbook. And fin most likely has already done enough damage.

Not to worry you, I was very suicidal with this too, and probably should have been on something. Actually I was, and its hair loss made me stop, and I think it stopped working due to neurosteroid depletion and inability to be metabolized (I have studies posted on an older thread about that).

I used to hate marijuana... And still kind of do, but between hard drugs (eventually very bad even if functional, it's messy) and most pharms (1/100 and it is basically a hard drug - stims) it's easy to see at least no iatrogenic illness, addiction (real addiction, only losers go to rehab for weed), it's safer than a lot of other stuff.



Probably NOT in your current state****
And def not on an antidepressant.

As Bruschi11 said, fasting could get rid of a lot of your symptoms potentially.

I had panic attacks maybe at 15,16?
Depression pretty young too.
And worse and worse stuff
Incl suicidal depression BC of PFS.

Fasting saved my life.
I'd literally rather have no doctor than trial most meds and literally did this for half my 20's... And literally supposedly NEED them....I'm hypersensitive, maybe you only are to fin, but after antidepressants I promised myself never to take that nor anything like the ad drugs.

Messed up because they trapped me.
BC "I needed it", and but what of the hair loss? I chose the safest (still killed lots of people, I can verify this... People have killed themselves off Lamotrigine), and it raped my hair.

They're all shit.

Targeted dopamine agonists, NRI, etc drugs don't do what these do.

Suicide rates up drastically since AD's blew up the market.

Anyways, if anyone should be on an antidepressant it's someone with 30-40% suicide rates in their disorders + PFS depression ...
Which I was suffering from but no more.

I'm confident again for the most part, only ADHD and people, time, and chaos bringing me down again.... Which is fine, cuz fuck it.

Read Concerned's log perhaps.

I tried to overdose among other things BC of fin... Suicidal thoughts are chemically caused by this shit drug... Coming from someone who supposedly has bipolar, but afaik was NEVER accurate suicidal outside of cosmetic or psyche meds.

I have sister in law's in pharma.
They're deluded at best (if she reads this, I truly don't give a fuck).

Dual DX? BC? Guys, in Usa you use all these acronymes that is almos impossible for me to read through.
Yes, i'd like to fast, but i can not water fast while i'm on psycho drugs so, what do you suggest?
Did your fast erase depression and suicidal thoughts?

Uh, of course i'm not on fin.

 

[MNK99]

Sorry, bc= because.
Dual dx means dual diagnosis, in my case
Bipolar and ADHD (relatively legit, very legit as in I feel and several specialists concur).

Typing on my phone.

Basically my life was FINE with significant hair loss (still had tons), only treating ADHD, and not treating bipolar.

Most medical and pharma wisdom would say THIS IS WRONG -you will die...

And yet, ONLY after treating bipolar did I legitimately worry about going bald young. Then I acted stupid, and asked for a finasteride script.

Treating sfx with more drugs seldom goes well. There's kids on ten drugs for Bipolar I and ADHD or schizophrenia... Those are extreme examples but so is fin.

Basically any severe psychiatric state I've been in where it's actually noticable to more than 3-5 people and hidden well from most (outside of school or relationships), was caused by a pharma drug.

Ativan made me suicidal.
Fin did too for months and months.

And who knows...
Maybe it was accutane (way before my dual diagnosis and 10 years before fin).

I'm saying that acc to medical wisdom
I'm supposed to die without treating bipolar... Or at least there's a high chance of early demise, and substance abuse, trouble etc.

So trying to treat it at long last (2.5 yrs after diagnosis and 10 years suspected and come to think of it , symptoms mentioned back on effexor in my psychiatrists notes), and then going bald... And then becoming an invalid, and then accutely suicidal....

I made it without antidepressants.

So it should be possible.

*But I understand, bc I do need some meds that many are very against (stimulants).

If anything those treat some people's depression way better than AD's. Some of them anyways. They're sometimes prescribed for it. Check my log if you want more info.

Are you able to eat?
I was thankfully able to finally string together a real fast after several attempts in January. 5d,6d,20d that month.

And without it, I wouldn't be here.
So I wish you the best and hope you get the help you need here. Sorry if I'm hard to understand.


In short: I feel for you and am sorry you're going through this. I just don't think antidepressants should be a long term thing. This is a lot like why I don't think lithium or Lamotrigine is a long term solution for me either ... BC after the ruined thyroid, kidneys, hair, face, career, etc... How fucking happy would I be?

Don't get me wrong what you're doing actually does work for SOME people. But they're not posting here and maybe it will hurt some of those people in the end.

The drugs that they pretend are safe are the furthest thing from it for some, but there's no recourse nor resolution, and if anything it further complicates the matter at hand. Extended fast or detox has helped many terrible conditions.

Lots of (patients similar to me) swear by microdosing lithium, but most their doctors would be against it. But they'd readily prescribe lithium which will destroy parts of them (if they react like any human to toxic lithium doses).

It's just like treating my anxiety with vodka or coke... Except there's No good or even precisely my own, normal feelings. There's no buzz, only becoming more easily controlled and sociable for everyone else. My opinion is shaped by some very dark experiences... But treating total health wins over meds by and large.

When judgement and intelligence and personality is affected by any medication, something (very hard to define) is very wrong.

Also sidenote: Medical marijuana tiny doses not even daily, helped my depression as much if not way more (no damage to self), compared to mood enhancing mood stabilizers (Pre and on finasteride).

Right now 70-80% or more recovered...
It works well. Not perfectly.

I'd only recommend it to someone 1. Not in a terrible state like with PFS , 2. Psychologically able to handle it.

Did more than prozac, Zoloft, effexor, trileptal, 5htp, Lamotrigine, Seroquel, ativan ever did and that's saying a lot considering experiences in young adulthood were terrifying (not dose i.e. THC:CBD and strain controlled).

Maybe a detox or fast
And slowly getting back to healthy habits like strength training - much of what people did here and on Swole Source, would help. And maybe if still depressed after several months, but healthier and better overall, mood boosting supplements, nootropics, medical marijuana, and the like could be of use.

Maybe pure CBD at that point (not enough for me, but my situation is complicated).

 

[bruschi11]

Since it seems you really need a drug in your case I’d go with mirtazapine. You can fast on it. You can fast at home on it.

My second major stride taken was a juice fast while on mirtazapine. I used a rife machine to zap pathogens while fasting.

Would be really nice to see your hair test amongst other things like comprehensive parasitology, Lyme and it’s co-infections.

Undoubtedly you’re definitely one of the sicker stories here. The brain is a scary thing when u don’t have control of it. I was a worst case example of this. I got beyond it pretty quickly when I finally was able to receive some sort of diagnosis that a pathogen (mycoplasma ) was eating me alive.

Thing is with what we do here, you don’t have to wait for a diagnosis. You can attack all angles with fasting and balancing system.

 

[Go_faster_Sonic]

So, trying to type a short:
1. since i'm on drugs, i can not water fast but i can juice feast, right? What is better between juice feast and raw food, in your opinion? I found a doctor in italy who wants to put me on raw food.
2. is there any difference between water/juice fasting from the cd nuts and this (for me) not understandable elettrolyte protocol?
I just came from my doctor who said that he cannot even understand the helen protocol and that it contains many mistakes...
3. what is the difference, between the CD's and the Helen's protocol?

So much confusion...

 

[Go_faster_Sonic]

Guys, as i wrote in the protocols thread, i understtod perfectly the theory, what i miss is the link.
i mean, what's the link between the theory (glutathione, 5 beta reductase, the nadph inhibition, the bile acids inhibition etc...) and fasting? if the theory is correct, why does fasting seems helpful?
same question about tei: what is the connection between the theory and the tei protocol?

i'm currently using n-acety-cysteine, but i cannot do it forever, so i'm gonna choose between fasting and tei, but i'd like to understand what i'm gonna do.

 

[Reverse]

Guys, as i wrote in the protocols thread, i understtod perfectly the theory, what i miss is the link.
i mean, what's the link between the theory (glutathione, 5 beta reductase, the nadph inhibition, the bile acids inhibition etc...) and fasting? if the theory is correct, why does fasting seems helpful?
same question about tei: what is the connection between the theory and the tei protocol?

i'm currently using n-acety-cysteine, but i cannot do it forever, so i'm gonna choose between fasting and tei, but i'd like to understand what i'm gonna do.

I was wondering the same about TEI. Can someone post links of the similarities between elements and minerals deficiency and pfs?

 

[IHateFin]

i would def drop the ssri, man...
your suicidal thoughts and depression is not caused by lack of serotonin, but rather the fuckery that is PFS so if this is truely helping you its just a bandaid and will hinder you treating the underlying cause.

serotonin is not by far the happy nurotransmitter especially considering it puts people in a PFS state called PSSD so whatever protocol you try who knows how this ssri will effect your progress... SSRIs lower dht and 5 alpha reductase... only reason its helping you is most likely due to a side effect some ssris cause which is increasing allopregnenolone which is a nurosteroid that is lowered from finasteride

 

[IHateFin]

Guys, as i wrote in the protocols thread, i understtod perfectly the theory, what i miss is the link.
i mean, what's the link between the theory (glutathione, 5 beta reductase, the nadph inhibition, the bile acids inhibition etc...) and fasting? if the theory is correct, why does fasting seems helpful?
same question about tei: what is the connection between the theory and the tei protocol?

i'm currently using n-acety-cysteine, but i cannot do it forever, so i'm gonna choose between fasting and tei, but i'd like to understand what i'm gonna do.

i believe it has been stated that fasting helps since it lowers hormones and causes receptors to upregulate including androgen receptors

 

[noprop]

Okay, guys. I was heavily suicidal for 4-5 months. Every day. For at least 5-10 hours I could only think of how to kill me. No medication. Just intermittent fasting. Due to insomnia took trazodone for a while. Quit it after 2 months.
Ad are no more than dangerous in the long run. Very low tappering of is best.
You are treating the symptoms.
If you need a comprehensive manual, go read my first post where I describe all the needed steps from comprehensive analysis to treatment protocols. Pay attention: going through this bs is not fare siesta. It takes time to read, ASK and understand. I dont know your symptoms. I can tell you I had all possible symptoms, lots of them got much better.
But I have read so far more than several thousands posts.
Create a log. Best