Vicecaz PAS log

[vicecaz]

No I don't notice much from them, no die off effects
During my first Andro cycle I felt a little more confident but no significant change sexually . No hair loss, it was quite the opposite. Digestion was better , I could tolerate carbs much better
No depression or anxiety either whereas it's commonly reported as side effects

But many find their second or third cycle to be much more effective so we'll see

 

[lakehouse]

I was willing to know which one of B1 and B2 would make me feel better since apparently Accutane make you deficiently in those and Helen had the beginning of a theory regarding them
Last month did a bit of 800/1000mg B1 (Thiamine HCl ) with no significant effect. It was only a bottle of 100 caps of 100mg so nothing much all in all, I'll probably have to retry it later
Still it's B2 turn now. Started 3 days ago, 100mg a day, I'll probably up the dosage soon and see how I feel


Still on CDnuts protocol + electrolyte, vit E/C , anti fungal cocktail ( Black walnut, wormwood, Clove ) 1 week on 3 weeks off
Sometimes Ox bile / Bile acid factors
Licorice root once every 10 days, still trying to see if it's good or not for me. So far good results
Diet is the one TEI recommended
Cinammon

Recently is the best I've felt since I took this drug, mentally feeling good, anhedonia is still here but better recently . I tried increasing the dosage of Catuaba Bark ( Serotonine and Dopamine reuptake Inhibitor ) and Muira Puama ( D1,Beta,2A agonism, AcHe blocker ) as part of CD's herbs rotation so it could be why, maybe not
Remains Dry eyes and sexual sides are lagging, still not feeling optimal after carbs/sugar ( inflammation ) and sensitivities to some food

In a few weeks I'll start my second cycle of R Andro, going for 6+ weeks

you got significant improvements in anhedonia??

how much??

haha this made me feel (not technically cause of anhedonia lol) so good!!

 

[vicecaz]

you got significant improvements in anhedonia??

how much??

haha this made me feel (not technically cause of anhedonia lol) so good!!

Nothing to be euphoric about but still It's significant
it was after a high dose of Muira Puama and Catuaba bark

 

[lakehouse]

Not that much but it was noticeable
Nothing to be euphoric about but still It's significant
it was after a high dose of Muira Puama and Catuaba bark

does it seem sustainable? or is it just another supplement we'd have to take forever?

EDIT: just saw these are testboosters

similar to CDSnuts protocol...hmmm

i think your next andro cycle might be really good

*knock on wood

 

[vicecaz]

does it seem sustainable? or is it just another supplement we'd have to take forever?

EDIT: just saw these are testboosters

similar to CDSnuts protocol...hmmm

i think your next andro cycle might be really good

*knock on wood

It doesnt but I hope cycling them just as Cd's protocol advise to would do the trick over time, maybe with a higher dosage compared to what I did the past months. It's even recommended on longecity forum (for anhedonia) not to use it everyday but rather once or twice a week.

As I ran out of Pine Pollen I figured I would start R andro this week, earlier than planned initially. It's been three days .I'm taking 600mg divided in two doses, one before lunch and the other after/during dinner
The second day I woke up really dry and lethargic, just drinking water with potassium in it resolved the issue . Staying hydrated and taking KCl while on cycle seem paramount to me
I don't want to draw conclusion too fast but I've had good sensation regarding libido/ED that I definitely didn't experiment with the 1st cycle . I'll give an update in about 10 days

So yeah you nailed it, this cycle's looking good
Hope you'll gain more from your second cycle than your first one too, mate

 

[lakehouse]

It doesnt but I hope cycling them just as Cd's protocol advise to would do the trick over time, maybe with a higher dosage compared to what I did the past months. It's even recommended on longecity forum (for anhedonia) not to use it everyday but rather once or twice a week.

As I ran out of Pine Pollen I figured I would start R andro this week, earlier than planned initially. It's been three days .I'm taking 600mg divided in two doses, one before lunch and the other after/during dinner
The second day I woke up really dry and lethargic, just drinking water with potassium in it resolved the issue . Staying hydrated and taking KCl while on cycle seem paramount to me
I don't want to draw conclusion too fast but I've had good sensation regarding libido/ED that I definitely didn't experiment with the 1st cycle . I'll give an update in about 10 days

So yeah you nailed it, this cycle's looking good
Hope you'll gain more from your second cycle than your first one too, mate

have people on longecity been able to correct the anhedonia problem fully with it?
im going to buy them now lol

good luck on this andro cycle, look forward to your next update

 

[vicecaz]

check out those notes I saved from one of the thread: @lakehouse

----------------------

Also for people who suffer from anhedonia russian nootrop LADASTEN can be good choise cycled with cdp choline.

This was used in my country and that man reported full recovery

---------------------
It can literally take YEARS for the brain to recover from alcohol, benzodiazepines, or SSRIs ( in your case, PFS ) --


IMHO your best bet is to find gentle herbal remedies to



1. regulate and heal your GABA system

2. regulate and heal your Serotonin system

3. Regulate and heal your Dopamine system



-----------------------------------

In time yes, anhedonia does tend to reverse, usually through long and frustrating progress. Various remedies can give relief though.take magnesium and possibly other nmda-antagonists, and add things like Jiaogulan to reverse dopaminergic function. When coming off switch to milder stimulant like caffeine if you feel lacking energy and take Rhodiola.

-----------------------------------

You could find much more. I was not actively looking for someone that cured his anhedonia. And people on longevity tend to recommend (possible) dangerous potential remedies, SSRI and the likes, so be careful.

But since the anhedonia is the only symptom left for you, you're not the worst type of PFS there is, I wouldn't touch drugs or something that could have a detrimental effect to your health. Prior to that kind of experimentation I would try safer ways to cure this emotional issue, be it Water fasting, TEI, or going back to CD's protocol as many herbs he recommends ( Rhodiola, Bacopa, Muira Puama, Catuaba, Schisandra, Gotu Kola .. ) seem to be working on GABA/Serotonin/Dopamine system



What happened with the sarcosine + nac protocol you were about to try ?

Thanks man

 

[lakehouse]

check out those notes I saved from one of the thread: @lakehouse

----------------------

Also for people who suffer from anhedonia russian nootrop LADASTEN can be good choise cycled with cdp choline.

This was used in my country and that man reported full recovery

---------------------
It can literally take YEARS for the brain to recover from alcohol, benzodiazepines, or SSRIs ( in your case, PFS ) --


IMHO your best bet is to find gentle herbal remedies to



1. regulate and heal your GABA system

2. regulate and heal your Serotonin system

3. Regulate and heal your Dopamine system



-----------------------------------

In time yes, anhedonia does tend to reverse, usually through long and frustrating progress. Various remedies can give relief though.take magnesium and possibly other nmda-antagonists, and add things like Jiaogulan to reverse dopaminergic function. When coming off switch to milder stimulant like caffeine if you feel lacking energy and take Rhodiola.

-----------------------------------

You could find much more. I was not actively looking for someone that cured his anhedonia. And people on longevity tend to recommend (possible) dangerous potential remedies, SSRI and the likes, so be careful.

But since the anhedonia is the only symptom left for you, you're not the worst type of PFS there is, I wouldn't touch drugs or something that could have a detrimental effect to your health. Prior to that kind of experimentation I would try safer ways to cure this emotional issue, be it Water fasting, TEI, or going back to CD's protocol as many herbs he recommends ( Rhodiola, Bacopa, Muira Puama, Catuaba, Schisandra, Gotu Kola .. ) seem to be working on GABA/Serotonin/Dopamine system



What happened with the sarcosine + nac protocol you were about to try ?

Thanks man

Yeah I'm not going to touch any drugs to fix anhedonia. I was going to try the sarcosine which i have ordered and is ready, but I got in touch with a preventative healthcare physician. This doctor is not like the regular MD's that take insurance, his services aren't covered because they are cutting edge.

these types of doctors usually specialize in hormone stuff like TRT, but this particular one also does "hair regeneration" and has talked about symptoms with propecia. so long story short, i didnt take the sarcosine because i was doing another comprehensive blood panel, and i will have this guy help me figure out exactly what is wrong with me to fix the root source of the problem. another reason i am reluctant to take sarcosine is because it just seems like a termporary fix. i dont want to treat anhedonia like a chronic illness, i want to get rid of it 100%. so it's just a last resort for me at this point


because others have fixed anhedonia by fasting, fixing a stomach worm, simply quitting finasteride. and so there isn't a one size fits all solution for everyone, and so id rather get to the root cause. most people ive seen on fin and propecia have recovered quickly from anhedonia, but others like us haven't, which tells me we have some other stuff going on.

currently waiting on TEI supplements as well

 

[MNK99]

TEI should be good man. Should be there soon @lakehouse. Noots can be great but have left some very sick also* -- cycling is key. I know very little about Ladasten. Choline is great for some, not so much for others (probably pretty bad for some others). And probably if taken daily causes a tiny bit of depersonalization, but I treated it like stims or any serious drug - in the sense that I cycled it. And that depersonalization lasted maybe a few hours or half a night, it wasn't major. But* I can see that if someone does not recognize that quickly, and stays on such a thing a long long time, and then quits... they may have some serious issues to deal with. Likely not as bad as PFS, but may as well exercise caution. And yeah no drugs is ideal, so TEI. What's your plan again @vicecaz, for PAS?

 

[vicecaz]

I agree
@MNK99 Still doing CD's protocol + MgCl/KCl /vit E/C and sometimes B's at low dosage and doing good . See page 1

At one point in 4/5 months for the 1+ year mark I may reevaluate, stop the herbs to experiment with TEI or other but I'll keep the lifestyle ( meditation, cold showers, HIIT, workout, diet etc ) as a staple. I'll decide when it comes

After reading this study All-<i>trans</i> retinoic acid-induced hypothalamus–pituitary–adrenal hyperactivity involves glucocorticoid receptor dysregulation ,putting symptoms in perspective ( notably insulin resistance ) and following theories from members here , there's no doubt that PAS/PSSD/PFS affect the GRs

Since I'm still making progress with the current protocol I figured It would be impatient of me trying to modulate the GR using something (Dexa, lithium chloride, SAGREM, Ginseng, Progesterone all seem to be GR agonist, while B6, Mifepristone, RU43044, Ketoconazole, DHEA are antagonist . Antagonism activity is what I'm looking for, apparently. Anavar decrease the action of cortisol through another mechanism, at least on cycle) and I have too little information in my possession for now. No need to rush things or risk a decrease in baseline. TEI/CD's protocol would surely take care of this GR dysfunction by themselves over time anyway too, I'm just thinking out loud

 

[MNK99]

That's great man! Keep up what works for you and the lifestyle stuff will be super normal for you then, and anything remaining if there is, will go. That's good man. Concise and you're right there's no need to rush things. I'm calmer these days (mostly) and can kind of enjoy the process, versus initially (no idea), later (mad), and wanting to rush it... I understand it will take time, and life livable is good too.

 

[vicecaz]

Time for an update on my R Andro cycle; it's been 2 weeks

This cycle is much better than the first one. Libido is more present, EQ is better too.
I'm also feeling more aggressive , yesterday losing at something as futile as chess drove me crazy
Sensitivity improved as well, as in contact is much pleasurable down there

And like the first cycle, still no adverse side effects; no hair shedding, anxiety or anything, I feel like it fits perfectly my current chemistry
Just feeling a little bit lethargic and dry every 3/4 days if I don't supplement with potassium
I should add that I had 8/9 orgasms since I started, which is much more than usual and I feel like I would have benefited even more without them
For the remaining 3/4 weeks I'll do no fap/no orgasms and see

For those that didn't feel much or anything with their 1st cycle, like I did, this second cycle is no doubt more effective



*Hoping this cycle will work on my dry eyes, dry skin too. Nothing has lead to long term improvement yet in this area

 

[lakehouse]

Time for an update on my R Andro cycle; it's been 2 weeks

This cycle is much better than the first one. Libido is more present, EQ is better too.
I'm also feeling more aggressive , yesterday losing at something as futile as chess drove me crazy
Sensitivity improved as well, as in contact is much pleasurable down there

And like the first cycle, still no adverse side effects; no hair shedding, anxiety or anything, I feel like it fits perfectly my current chemistry
Just feeling a little bit lethargic and dry every 3/4 days if I don't supplement with potassium
I should add that I had 8/9 orgasms since I started, which is much more than usual and I feel like I would have benefited even more without them
For the remaining 3/4 weeks I'll do no fap/no orgasms and see

For those that didn't feel much or anything with their 1st cycle, like I did, this second cycle is no doubt more effective



*Hoping this cycle will work on my dry eyes, dry skin too. Nothing has lead to long term improvement yet in this area

Good to see the improvements man, anything with emotional blunting improvements?

Also wouldn’t hair loss be a positive sign?

 

[vicecaz]

Good to see the improvements man, anything with emotional blunting improvements?

Also wouldn’t hair loss be a positive sign?

Thank you man
I surprised myself laughing the way I used to a few days ago, so there's that, but I can't report a drastic improvement in anhedonia unfortunately, yet
I'll let you know about this specific issue

As for hair loss, in my specific case, I'm not sure . I'm not Post finasteride. I took accutane at 17 for acne with no hair loss whatsoever . My dad at 60+years old has a head full of hair, no shedding, almost perfect hairline. My twin brother too has a perfect hairline and doesn't shed . Hair loss started a few weeks after the crash from accutane that nuked my system. I was trying to recover doing intense cardio/jogging and the Cortisol release from the cardio I believe + the diet huge in carbs and fruits I was following at the moment ate a bit of my hair line

Later as I couldn't get better and my system was still weakening I started to shed, followed by an infection of Malassezia ( dandruff, too much sebum secretion in the scalp ) that increased the shedding . But today a diet and lifestyle free of inflammation, adequate shampoo etc keep my hair loss inexistent . So I would say I don't have the typical MPB " gene " or hairloss pathway of most fin user , but the downstream effect of PAS (inflammation, infection, fungus, mineral/hormonale unbalance) weakened my system so much it lead to some kind of hair loss .

That's why the increase of DHT in tissue/bloodstream from R andro doesn't trigger hair loss in my case . The role of DHT in hair loss is still controversial anyway. Imo it's more of an issue involving several factors, DHT being one of them but not necessarily a culprit by itself if not allowed to be one by other factors. anyway I'm too young to draw conclusion about my (potential) hair loss pattern
I could be wrong, but that's how I see the big picture. Plenty of people are more knowledgeable in this particular subject

 

[vicecaz]

And yes, I got lost and forgot to answer. In your case it could be a good sign, DHT going back online

But not necessarily . I think English ( Swolesource PFS member ) cured his PFS and the hair loss never returned in his case . Why not cure both PFS and hair loss if you get balanced. Probably not everyone, every case, but it's still possible to recover from fin and not be bothered by hair loss afterwards. That would be providing you reach, in the process or later, on purpose or not ( because I don't think English expected that ) , a perfect balance of minerals/ hormones

 

[talkingant]

Good update @vicecaz, glad to hear youre doing better. Some questions for you:

Which R Andro are you using?
What was length and dosage of first cycle?
Did you get any negative side effects?
How long was it between cycles?

 

[lakehouse]

Thank you man
I surprised myself laughing the way I used to a few days ago, so there's that, but I can't report a drastic improvement in anhedonia unfortunately, yet
I'll let you know about this specific issue

As for hair loss, in my specific case, I'm not sure . I'm not Post finasteride. I took accutane at 17 for acne with no hair loss whatsoever . My dad at 60+years old has a head full of hair, no shedding, almost perfect hairline. My twin brother too has a perfect hairline and doesn't shed . Hair loss started a few weeks after the crash from accutane that nuked my system. I was trying to recover doing intense cardio/jogging and the Cortisol release from the cardio I believe + the diet huge in carbs and fruits I was following at the moment ate a bit of my hair line

Later as I couldn't get better and my system was still weakening I started to shed, followed by an infection of Malassezia ( dandruff, too much sebum secretion in the scalp ) that increased the shedding . But today a diet and lifestyle free of inflammation, adequate shampoo etc keep my hair loss inexistent . So I would say I don't have the typical MPB " gene " or hairloss pathway of most fin user , but the downstream effect of PAS (inflammation, infection, fungus, mineral/hormonale unbalance) weakened my system so much it lead to some kind of hair loss .

That's why the increase of DHT in tissue/bloodstream from R andro doesn't trigger hair loss in my case . The role of DHT in hair loss is still controversial anyway. Imo it's more of an issue involving several factors, DHT being one of them but not necessarily a culprit by itself if not allowed to be one by other factors. anyway I'm too young to draw conclusion about my (potential) hair loss pattern
I could be wrong, but that's how I see the big picture. Plenty of people are more knowledgeable in this particular subject

Yeah if you don’t have MPB you won’t lose hair then from activating the 5ar enzyme

It’s peoole like me who are prone to losing that should start shedding

 

[vicecaz]

Good update @vicecaz, glad to hear youre doing better. Some questions for you:

Which R Andro are you using?
What was length and dosage of first cycle?
Did you get any negative side effects?
How long was it between cycles?

Thank you
I'm using the one from Ironmaglabs IML
For the first cycle I went for 4 weeks. I did some experiment; I tried 400,500 and 600mg split in 2 or 3 doses during the day. On average I did 500mg, 200 around breakfast, 300 around dinner. This current cycle I'm doing 300 around breakfast, 300 around dinner

The first one started on July and ended in August so there was 3 months between the 2 cycles and no negative side effects both times ( so far for the second), except lethargy, and dryness. Drinking more and supplementing KCl fix the issue

 

[vicecaz]

Update;

Finished my r Andro cycle yesterday. 6 weeks at 500/600mg
Unfortunately the great improvements in EQ and libido felt at week 2 and 3 did not last; the cause could be the multiple orgasms I had during that improvement window
I didn't feel the need of supplementing with Potassium chloride the last 2 weeks either, I stopped feeling lethargic and dry after some time on cycle . Great cycle overall, I was really strong at the gym, lots of energy all day long, chiseled jawline, firs time I regained nocturnals since PAS ( even though it didn't last ) and sometimes oily skin around the nose which is a great sign in my case . I also have this oily skin or at least not the usual dry skin as I'm typing these words ( Tribulus day today ) and I love it
Still, I'm excited to run the PCT herbs and see what will happen on the snapback

That said I'm currently in Japan until mid January, I had a lot of sugar those past days( rice, .. ) , cofee, even even a bit of gluten ( gluten free for 1+year ) . While It didn't crash me in terms of energy , (which is an amazing improvement since they used to put me in bed for 2 hours feeling like crap right after) , I still feel the inflammation they cause in me, make my hair shed and thin , and trigger a dandruff flare up. Following a Ray Peat like diet would make me bald in less than a year lol. I could provide some picture of my hair while on Keto and right after days of eating sugar, the difference is astounding

This reaction after sugar has been going for more than a year now and the only thing that keep the issue at bay is a keto style diet with minimal sugar intake ( carrots, blueberries 2/ week and apple sauce once every 8/9 days or so ) , which is not sustainable nor addressing the root of the problem, though I should give it a shot for a longer time since that was also advised by TEI

This issue is a sign of a metabolic disorder, be it pre diabetes, insulin resistance, whatever it's called, that everyone in here doesn't seem to suffer from. Running Cdnuts protocol and a strict diet for the past 10 months did not address the issue it seems and I might have to look for another approach to get rid of it
Obviously TEI comes to mind, or the Electrolyte protocol.

So my plan for now is to run the usual R andro PCT for about 6 weeks + Electrolytes, and I'll be around the 10+ months mark of Cd's protocol. I may follow a 3 week cycle of Fluconazole + natural anti virus/fungus for the dandruff and clear my blood off fungus that could lead to the issue post sugar ;

I'm then thinking of going off supplements for 2/3 weeks, send my hair and run TEI for a while as I believe my hair analysis must have changed since I sent the sample a year ago .
Other than that, Day 13 of nofap, still no libido or erection . Crazy how that can fluctuate and be the opposite of less than a month ago when I was better than ever since pas, sexually

Does anyone have a good whey to recommend ? Looking for a gluten/sugar/milk free one

 

[MNK99]

Cycle sounds great man. Chiselled and Jacked, for sure on that stuff. Nofap sounds great too. TEI can take you the rest or nearly the rest of the way. I believe that for myself too... I just lack patience/ got other shyt to think about currently. I did restock and will continue for 90d soon.
And for sure, my sexual drive was crazy high ON CYCLE, pretty good after also but it fluctuates. NF helps a lot.
I wrote up a list of wheys on Slayo's thread. I'll link once found.
How you liking Japan? My friend went there for like 6months, came back to Canada, moved to Korea. The east is alive. Amazing food and sights.